Bad Witness by a Christian Band

[Michael]

A ministry would do what they are called to do for free in the name of Christ.

I disagree. See 1 Corinthians 9:1-14... ministers are to be paid for their work. They are not required to work for free. It's noble if they do, I suppose, but it is not required by Scripture; in fact, quite the contrary... Scripture requires that we support those who minister to us.

[pethead]

AMEN Michael..so true...

[brent]

Yes we should. You missed my point. That scripture you used is taken out of context. That is not how we should support the office of the Christian rock band. That is meant for the one who oversees, or provides evangelistic/pastoral leadership to the church. Another scripture is "don't muzzle the ox".

The idea behind what I said is simple and easily read in the original post. We are all ministers as Christians. I am certainly all for a Christian being paid what the market allows for, for doing work, providing for his/her family. That is REALLY scriptural.

What is funky is a group of saved people charging for people to come to a show in the name of ministry. You don't charge people to get into church, or heaven. Well, some people do, but it isn't scriptural. Conversely, Carman tried the donation at the door thing, and he lost his shirt, because Christians are cheap!!!

Again, keep the rock band and the ministry titles separate. They are legally. Stryper is a for profit band. Jesus Christ, the template for ministry, was non-profit. Infact, he gave more than he received. So, if you cannot operate that way, call it a band/show/entertainment. If you can operate that way, call it ministry.

Petra, DeGarmo and Key, Servant and others would atleast network with local youth ministers and churches to provide follow-up and support for the alter calls. Stryper doesn't do that. Petra has encouraged and included other ministry/orphanage/missionary organizations. Stryper doesn't. When's the last time anyone has reported on their site that one of the band members led them to the Lord? Never, atleast it is not showing up in any search words on the fan forums or on Stryper's site. What was Stryper saying when asked about a reunion? "If the money right". Quote from Michael Sweet.

[epdc]

historymaker said mortification was from australia, maybe he was kidding, i thought he said it seriously...sorry

[epdc]

I think michael sweet said they are a ministry (one of you posted a letter of him in answer to all this)


ya know, I believe this promoters didn`t read the whole contract or didn`t believe Stryper would do this.. Yeah, I`m not agree with all this but if Stryper says on their contract that they won`t return any money if the concert gets cancel, there`s nothing to do

[gman]

I gotta go with what seem like basic facts on this one. Stryper puts on a big show that requires a lot gear on their part, as well as the part of the promoter. It takes lot of money to make this happen. The reason the contract says that the money will not be returned if the show is cancelled is because the band knows that the money will have already been spent. Not on them personally, but on the gear, planning, staff, etc., to make the show happen. Ultimately, the money covers someones paycheck and puts food on their table. There is no money to return.
This happens all the time in the US, and there is no outcry over it.
I don't think Stryper necessarily had the same motivations to do this show as the other bands might have had. They were going there as a rock band made up of Christians, to do a show for their Mexican fans, and the ministry was a side benefit. As most bands do, they took the money that was paid up front and used it to prepare for the show. The promoters were making an investment in the show and taking a risk, and they knew that based on the contract they signed. When they breached the contract, Stryper was legally able to cancel the show. They could have decided to still do the show, but they determined it was in their best interests not to do it. The money was already gone, and that was part of the risk involved from the promoters end. The facts seem to indicate that they made the initial investment and then didn't do the work to keep things on track. This is a little bit like investing in the stock market, not doing the homework to keep track of your stocks, then crying when all your money is gone because your stocks tanked.

[gman]

Here's some more from the Stryper site that helps clear things up.

Official statements from Stryper regarding the events of The Revolution Metal Fest in Mexico City which Stryper was scheduled to play on November 20th but had to cancel.

Dear Friends,

I am sure that everyone has heard enough pros and con�s on the unfortunate event that took place the week of November 20th regarding the Mexico City show called Revolution Metal Fest. We have been doing some FACT checking into the dealings of this show and will try to present them here, to help you better understand why this is such a BIG DEAL.

Despite the fact that we live in a land that is fair and free we have found the need for something to seal a business deal called a contract. The terms of a contract are an agreement between two parties to do business with one another and it is common practice for that deal to remain between those people. It is nobody�s business what the terms of the contract are because each person who enters the contract has specific reasons for those terms. Stryper is very conscious about their sound and takes many more steps to assure that sound is perfect for every show, thus they have many more expenses, without taking into consideration that the band members live on both coasts of the U.S. I think who ever leaked the terms of the Stryper contract has done a huge disservice to the music community in general. Why was this information leaked, one might ask?

As I have said before any show promoter who is doing a show even one third the size of Metal Fest would have taken out insurance to limit their losses in the event of a snafu, which I can confidently say happened here with the mandated Work Visa�s. This would have solved the money issue, which seems to be what everybody is hung up on. Well part of the expenses of the band went to buy specialized T-shirts for this date and Stryper has authorized the sale of these including a signed picture in which all the proceeds will go back to the promoter to recoup the losses. I for one think this is a great idea which will in effect swap part of the expenses the band had for a partial refund to the promoter.

There are three questions one must ask about this BIG DEAL. The first one is above in bold. The second one is Who is the promoter? Is it really just a group of inexperienced church leaders from Mexico? The Third is Who is the webmaster that started the �Payback� site and what are his connections with this concert?

If you click on www.revolutionmetalfest.com and when the main page comes up click on the promoters link you will find 3 promoters. The first is Alcance Subterraneo this is the group of people in Mexico. The second is MCM Music which is a management firm out of Germany (notice all the disparaging remarks against Stryper from all those people in Germany). This is the management company who represents Narnia and Saviour Machine. Oh also I thought you might like to know that one of the managing partners in MCM Music is none other than the lead singer for Saviour Machine �Eric Clayton. The third promoter is listed as Rowe Productions the management of Mortification. Of course you probably could see that the management takes the namesake of the lead singer Steve Rowe.

Between these promoters there should have been the experience to pull off this show and the knowledge to get insurance. The thing that really bothers me though is that we were lead to believe that this financial drain is all on the group in Mexico, as is referenced in Steve Rowe�s first letter on the payback site. If the group in Mexico is left holding the bag financially then I must ask where are the other promoters in this disaster. The latest post from the webmaster says that there will be a trust fund set up to help relieve the financial pressure (of which I encourage all to donate to) but who is the webmaster?

I have my suspicions but I do not want to start any rumors. I ask the webmaster to make him/herself known, lay all the cards on the table and then lets get down to building the body of Christ instead of tearing it down. I can confidently say that Stryper will be the first to extend a hand of friendship to all who are involved in this unfortunate event and will do whatever it takes to help out and mend the broken Christian ties.

STRYPER

Some facts learned from the information on the Stryper site.
1) The band does care and is will to work in the future at trying to do a show in Mexico.
2) Stryper not returning the money (which is already spent) does not eqaul "stryper doesn't care about the losses on the part of the promoter". Despite what seems to have been poor planning by the promoters in not getting insurance to cover their investment, Stryper is helping them out. There is no legal obligation on the part of Stryper to do anything, but according to the statements above, they have extended a Christian helping hand by allowing the t-shirts and photos purchased for this event to be sold, with 100% of the proceeds going to the promoters to help them out. That is going beyond the legal stuff to do something good. Stryper knows that the money from the promoters ultimately was used to put food on the table for many families and it would be unfair to try and get that money back. They also understand the situation the promoters are in and have done something to help them out.
It sounds like the parties involved are doing what they can to clean up the mess on their own and work things out as brothers in Christ. The rest of us can give props and respect to both sides and shut the pie-hole!

[johntheumfreak]

hehehehehe I was surprised too when I knew Mortification was from australia, I always wondered from where they were from. On their tapes doesn`t appear.

Dude what are you talking about? Anyway, in my oppinion Stryper is one of the best bands ever, and ARE Christian.....I mean, dude, just read their lyrics......I don't know them personally, but heck, I've read enough to base an oppinion........my oppinion may be right, may not....I don't know.......don't go judging these dudes, if it wasn't for Stryper, petra would still be doing synth music

Seeing how Petra never did change anything musically until Bob left, I would say that you have no idea what you are talking about. Petra followed secualr music trends, not what stryper was doing. I got news for ya. Stryper came in late on the whole metal thing. They were not innovators. Just the first to look like women in striped outfits, stuff cucumbers don their pants, play metal and throw bibles. Very different.

It's okay dude........I know, Stryper probably didn't have much to do with Petra puting the extra rock in their music, and I should probably have kept my mouth shut.....plus I'm only 15, so I don't have any actual memory of that.......I have researched the history of Christian rock on the internet though, so I probably know more about it than most 15-year-olds, but I'm still pretty fuzzy