So...
I know people might hate me for this comment... but I'm going to ask it, anyway...
HOW IN THE WORLD can people say they are Christian, and also be a Democrat?
Politics - Spark some heated conversations...
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Metallinostheos
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Let me go one step farther.
When Christians say, "HOW IN THE WORLD can people say they are Christian, and also listen the to music of the world, ie Rock." what do you think? I know most people here think those Chrisians are wrong in their thinkings. Many Christian Democrats think the same of Christian Republicans.
Just because someone is Democrat doesn't mean they aren't a Christian. No where is the Bible does it talk about how a government should be run. Just because someone is a Democrat doesn't mean that they hold to all the beliefs and support abortion. Also, many people take the Bible literally when it says to help the poor, needy, and widows. The Bible commands the church to do this and since the church doesn't anymore, the people turn to the government to do this, and the government's way of doing this is through government programs. This is primarily a democratic view. Some people see this as following scripture.
I myself am a Republican primarily based on the abortion issue.
When Christians say, "HOW IN THE WORLD can people say they are Christian, and also listen the to music of the world, ie Rock." what do you think? I know most people here think those Chrisians are wrong in their thinkings. Many Christian Democrats think the same of Christian Republicans.
Just because someone is Democrat doesn't mean they aren't a Christian. No where is the Bible does it talk about how a government should be run. Just because someone is a Democrat doesn't mean that they hold to all the beliefs and support abortion. Also, many people take the Bible literally when it says to help the poor, needy, and widows. The Bible commands the church to do this and since the church doesn't anymore, the people turn to the government to do this, and the government's way of doing this is through government programs. This is primarily a democratic view. Some people see this as following scripture.
I myself am a Republican primarily based on the abortion issue.
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Solo Deo Gloria
Jeff
Jeff
i have asked that too
I have asked that very question in the past few weeks! I think it is mostly one of three things...
1) They were born into it
2) Not informed about what the Word of God says about the issues
3) Easily persuaded by the media...music....tv/news...papers
That is why it is so important for those of us who have been informed to GO VOTE! It is a right and a gift that God has given to us! If you plan to vote...please encourage people you know who will vote morally... (according to the word) to vote as well! This election is a spirirtual battle! It is the most important time in our nations history...and we need to heed the WAKE-UP Call and do our part as brothers and sisters in Christ!:)
1) They were born into it
2) Not informed about what the Word of God says about the issues
3) Easily persuaded by the media...music....tv/news...papers
That is why it is so important for those of us who have been informed to GO VOTE! It is a right and a gift that God has given to us! If you plan to vote...please encourage people you know who will vote morally... (according to the word) to vote as well! This election is a spirirtual battle! It is the most important time in our nations history...and we need to heed the WAKE-UP Call and do our part as brothers and sisters in Christ!:)
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executioner
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how
How and why is it an immoral and illegal war? Give us some facts and hard data on the subject.
Also think about abortions or maybe stem cell research and see what Kerry and Bush think about these issues, or better yet what does God think? Who do you think God is pulling for in this election?
Also think about abortions or maybe stem cell research and see what Kerry and Bush think about these issues, or better yet what does God think? Who do you think God is pulling for in this election?
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FORGIVE! FORGET! & LET GO!
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calicowriter
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Being informed about the candidate and not the party is what is important in my book. A lot of people still believe that Democrats stick up for the poor and working class while Republicans are all rich fat cats. Well, it has been decades since Dems really represented the working class, and none of the Republicans I personally know are rich. Not all Republicans are anti-abortion or anti-embryonic stem cell research either.
This Republican working class gal will be voting proudly for President Bush, even though I disagree with some of the aspects of how the war in Iraq is being handled now. The reason I can vote for him is because I respect HOW he makes his decisions, whether I agree or not.
This Republican working class gal will be voting proudly for President Bush, even though I disagree with some of the aspects of how the war in Iraq is being handled now. The reason I can vote for him is because I respect HOW he makes his decisions, whether I agree or not.
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Bridget
"whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things." Phillipians 4:8
"whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things." Phillipians 4:8
I don't agree with the original question in this thread, as it reeks of discrimination (as the question about rock music points out)-but Iraq was not an illegal war, as the UN authorized it with resolution 1441-in addition, Iraq has refused several other UN resolutions.Maybe they would vote for Kerry because they disagree with an immoral illegal war.
Make the case for removing a genocidal dictator immoral if you want, but don't start telling me it's an illegal war and then say nothing to back it up.
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war and scripture
They might vote for Kerry because they believe it is an immoral war. But, them believing that, doesn't necessarily make it true.
As for the bible and the issues. Liberal theology is creeping more and more into the church. It's become increasingly common to find people and churches who don't take the word of God literally and as the absolute authority. They diminish the gospel and allow for other religions being just as valid in terms of knowing God and getting into heaven. So, they might tend to be more liberal and vote liberal because traditional Christian faith doesn't fit what they choose to believe, and being liberal is perceived as being more open minded.
Another thing I've heard expressed is the idea that the church dropped the ball on helping people, and since the Gov't seems to be doing it now (despite taking and more and more of our money and not solving any problems), it is best to just vote for whichever candidate can best keep the Gov't dishing it out. I think that wrong. There needs to be an outcry from Conservatives for the church to do more, and I think the conservatism of Bush is best for this country because he belivieves in helping people and solving problems, not just dishing out money.
It's fundamentally wrong in my opinion that I can't get the really nice apartment because I make too much, but the poor guy can get it. It encourages the poor guy to stay poor, and anyone on the borderline to get under the line so they too can live it up at the taxpayer's expense. It ahould be the other way around. I should have the nice place, the poor guy should want what I have, and the help should be in place so he can better himself and get to where I am. Where do the liberals figure in all of this. They want to keep dishing it out and keep the poor guy poor and living it up. Then they can scare him by saying the republicans want to take away what he has, and he will in turn vote democratic.
As for the bible and the issues. Liberal theology is creeping more and more into the church. It's become increasingly common to find people and churches who don't take the word of God literally and as the absolute authority. They diminish the gospel and allow for other religions being just as valid in terms of knowing God and getting into heaven. So, they might tend to be more liberal and vote liberal because traditional Christian faith doesn't fit what they choose to believe, and being liberal is perceived as being more open minded.
Another thing I've heard expressed is the idea that the church dropped the ball on helping people, and since the Gov't seems to be doing it now (despite taking and more and more of our money and not solving any problems), it is best to just vote for whichever candidate can best keep the Gov't dishing it out. I think that wrong. There needs to be an outcry from Conservatives for the church to do more, and I think the conservatism of Bush is best for this country because he belivieves in helping people and solving problems, not just dishing out money.
It's fundamentally wrong in my opinion that I can't get the really nice apartment because I make too much, but the poor guy can get it. It encourages the poor guy to stay poor, and anyone on the borderline to get under the line so they too can live it up at the taxpayer's expense. It ahould be the other way around. I should have the nice place, the poor guy should want what I have, and the help should be in place so he can better himself and get to where I am. Where do the liberals figure in all of this. They want to keep dishing it out and keep the poor guy poor and living it up. Then they can scare him by saying the republicans want to take away what he has, and he will in turn vote democratic.
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Um... Ok...
Well, excuse me... I was just generalizing by that question... did not mean to offend.I don't agree with the original question in this thread, as it reeks of discrimination
My basis for that question is MOSTLY the abortion issue. This is SO HUGE!!!
I agree with you guys, you can (and should) make your own decisions on the election. PLEASE VOTE!!! We are God's voice to those who don't listen to Him, so we need to let Him be heard.
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be optimistic
Since when have we gotten the idea that people can not make their own way in society. We can come out of a life of poverty to a life of prosperity if we have the will to do so. My dad is a wonderful example of someone who had a bad hand dealt to him and worked to get to the point of prosperity. He dropped out of school because his father had passed away and he had no money! He had been raised around restaurant owners and wanted to eventually be in the food business. He started out working as a pizza maker/dishwasher back in the 50's. In the 60's he owned 2 restaurants that were sucessful. Then in the 70's he was discovered by a man who helped get invloved w/ catering. He eventually became the president of that company and was chef to the celebrities that came to the convention center. In the 80's owned some restaurants and now he is retired. All that to say... the American way is to be your own man and make your own decisions. When we let government controll our minds...our lives for that matter....we are getting very close to danger. We need leaders who believe in us as people. We definatly do not need someone who will drag us down and keep people from living out the dreams they have. Repression kills dreams..."without a dream...the people perish".
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Doug Giles (archive)
October 23, 2004 | printer friendly version Print | email to a friend Send
Can a Christian be a liberal? Short answer: no. There is no way a Christian can buy into neo-liberal ideology and be faithful to the bigger-than-Dallas teachings of the scripture and expect to continue enjoying his hard-won religious liberties.
For the "Christian" to lean politically to the left means that he must blow off huge chunks of the Bible and replace the scripture with the make-believe notions of postmodernism�s malleable "Christ." Only after torturing the scripture can the Christian then fit liberalism into his supposed relationship with God.
For the Christian who believes that unfeigned faith in Christ should correspond with Jesus� high view of scripture, it is� now� impossible to believe in God and be an adherent to postmodern liberalism.
The twain no longer meet. Liberalism has been hijacked by bizarre special-interest thugs who spit on the Word of God and believe that the Bible has no place in public life, (except maybe in a museum where people can look at it from time to time).
The Christian who has a bent to the liberal left needs to understand something: while he is skipping around the maypole with his rose-colored glasses on, if it were up to the modern, secularized liberal establishment, he would be more restricted than Bill when Hillary�s in town. Yes, if the Christophobic thugs had it their way, Christians would be relegated to a marginalized spiritual ghetto on the sidelines of life.
For the na�ve Christian voter who thinks he can toss a ballot in the Nuevo liberal direction, please know that a vote toward the secular left could leave you bereft of sacred liberties. Thanks to the aggressive ludicrous liberal lug nuts� anti-Christian agenda, your vote for a liberal, Christian, is a vote for �
1. Christianity to be scrubbed from government and whatever turf the government owns. Thanks to the liberals, the Ten Commandments have about as much acceptance in our government and their properties as Rush Limbaugh would at Al Franken�s family reunion. Yes, the Judeo-Christian principles that formed the rock-solid foundation of this great American Experiment are now aggressively fought against by the lascivious left.
If� if� the secularists continue to stay behind the wheel of this American bus, you can kiss all semblance of Christianity good-bye in this heretofore God-graced government. Saint, you might as well say farewell to our government�s recognizing Christmas and adios to Good Friday if you�re going to vote the liberal ticket. If the secularists have it their way, Easter will be behind your keister, and you can kiss the Cross good-night as an acceptable public symbol that represents your faith and our nation�s recognition of Christ�s atoning work.
2. Secularism to be continually mainlined into our public school system. Thanks to rabid vapid secularism, our public schools and universities would rather you be a Rocky Horror super freak than a Christian. If your beliefs run to the bizarre or the banal, or if you want to smoke the same philosophical crack that Caligula, Nero, Castro or Lenin freebased, they�ll accommodate you.
Our schools are totally open to anyone and to anything, unless, of course, you�re a Christian. And if that�s the case, then you�re likely to get more sympathy from a badger with minimal sleep than you will from liberal educators who are hard at work making your life hard. A vote for the secular left is a vote for Christianity to continue to
be officially vilified on campus and Christians to be ostracized in campus life.
3. Public officials, employees and appointees to be pressured to hide their faith in the closet and suppress their public displays of belief in God lest they be grouped with Hitler, Osama, or Mussolini and then fired. Not only will the liberals aggressively work to prohibit the State from green lighting and recognizing Christianity as a legitimate and positive force in our land, they will also attempt to stifle Christians from influencing the path of government.
4. Public attacks on churches and Christians and attempts to restrict them in the private sector. Consider this, Christian pastor and Christian lay person looking to vote for the ludicrous left: the secular Mafioso�s intent is to make your ministerial life difficult, your evangelistic work taxing and your voice minimized. And good luck, pastor and church committee, in trying to buy property and get zoning with the anti-Christian libs at the helm.
5. The continued media endorsement of the same putrid hedonistic stuff that sunk ancient Rome. Yes, with the liberals in place, expect more weird crap in movies and on television. Expect to see more paintings of Christian symbols/ saints smeared with elephant dung. Expect Christianity to be bashed and vilified and Christians made out to be buckled-shoed morons with three teeth and an IQ of 50. Expect the culture to coarsen. Expect your kids to continue to be exposed to things that only rock stars see backstage with groupies. A vote for a liberal is a vote to see Christians continue to receive special ridicule and be flogged more than a pi�ata during a Cinco de Mayo festival.
My ClashPoint is this: Modern liberalism tosses the scripture out on several different levels. How a true believer in the Christ defined by the scripture can buy into what Jesus, the prophets and apostles said and also what these secular thugs say is beyond me. In addition to liberalism�s obvious and odious pro-holocaust-like abortion stance, its anti-biblical view of marriage, its scripture-slamming aggressive secularism, and its feckless view of our nation�s defense, liberalism completely clashes with the Christian worldview. Secular liberalism�s aggressive desire to eradicate Christians� rights should cause Christians to be concerned.
The Democratic Party�s liberalism has degenerated over the last 40-50 years in regard to its view of Christianity and Christian rights. This party, which formerly embraced and protected our nation�s great Christian heritage and teachings, no longer does so. Thus, today the Christian is between a rock and a hard place: he can either be a Christian or a liberal, but he cannot be both.
October 23, 2004 | printer friendly version Print | email to a friend Send
Can a Christian be a liberal? Short answer: no. There is no way a Christian can buy into neo-liberal ideology and be faithful to the bigger-than-Dallas teachings of the scripture and expect to continue enjoying his hard-won religious liberties.
For the "Christian" to lean politically to the left means that he must blow off huge chunks of the Bible and replace the scripture with the make-believe notions of postmodernism�s malleable "Christ." Only after torturing the scripture can the Christian then fit liberalism into his supposed relationship with God.
For the Christian who believes that unfeigned faith in Christ should correspond with Jesus� high view of scripture, it is� now� impossible to believe in God and be an adherent to postmodern liberalism.
The twain no longer meet. Liberalism has been hijacked by bizarre special-interest thugs who spit on the Word of God and believe that the Bible has no place in public life, (except maybe in a museum where people can look at it from time to time).
The Christian who has a bent to the liberal left needs to understand something: while he is skipping around the maypole with his rose-colored glasses on, if it were up to the modern, secularized liberal establishment, he would be more restricted than Bill when Hillary�s in town. Yes, if the Christophobic thugs had it their way, Christians would be relegated to a marginalized spiritual ghetto on the sidelines of life.
For the na�ve Christian voter who thinks he can toss a ballot in the Nuevo liberal direction, please know that a vote toward the secular left could leave you bereft of sacred liberties. Thanks to the aggressive ludicrous liberal lug nuts� anti-Christian agenda, your vote for a liberal, Christian, is a vote for �
1. Christianity to be scrubbed from government and whatever turf the government owns. Thanks to the liberals, the Ten Commandments have about as much acceptance in our government and their properties as Rush Limbaugh would at Al Franken�s family reunion. Yes, the Judeo-Christian principles that formed the rock-solid foundation of this great American Experiment are now aggressively fought against by the lascivious left.
If� if� the secularists continue to stay behind the wheel of this American bus, you can kiss all semblance of Christianity good-bye in this heretofore God-graced government. Saint, you might as well say farewell to our government�s recognizing Christmas and adios to Good Friday if you�re going to vote the liberal ticket. If the secularists have it their way, Easter will be behind your keister, and you can kiss the Cross good-night as an acceptable public symbol that represents your faith and our nation�s recognition of Christ�s atoning work.
2. Secularism to be continually mainlined into our public school system. Thanks to rabid vapid secularism, our public schools and universities would rather you be a Rocky Horror super freak than a Christian. If your beliefs run to the bizarre or the banal, or if you want to smoke the same philosophical crack that Caligula, Nero, Castro or Lenin freebased, they�ll accommodate you.
Our schools are totally open to anyone and to anything, unless, of course, you�re a Christian. And if that�s the case, then you�re likely to get more sympathy from a badger with minimal sleep than you will from liberal educators who are hard at work making your life hard. A vote for the secular left is a vote for Christianity to continue to
be officially vilified on campus and Christians to be ostracized in campus life.
3. Public officials, employees and appointees to be pressured to hide their faith in the closet and suppress their public displays of belief in God lest they be grouped with Hitler, Osama, or Mussolini and then fired. Not only will the liberals aggressively work to prohibit the State from green lighting and recognizing Christianity as a legitimate and positive force in our land, they will also attempt to stifle Christians from influencing the path of government.
4. Public attacks on churches and Christians and attempts to restrict them in the private sector. Consider this, Christian pastor and Christian lay person looking to vote for the ludicrous left: the secular Mafioso�s intent is to make your ministerial life difficult, your evangelistic work taxing and your voice minimized. And good luck, pastor and church committee, in trying to buy property and get zoning with the anti-Christian libs at the helm.
5. The continued media endorsement of the same putrid hedonistic stuff that sunk ancient Rome. Yes, with the liberals in place, expect more weird crap in movies and on television. Expect to see more paintings of Christian symbols/ saints smeared with elephant dung. Expect Christianity to be bashed and vilified and Christians made out to be buckled-shoed morons with three teeth and an IQ of 50. Expect the culture to coarsen. Expect your kids to continue to be exposed to things that only rock stars see backstage with groupies. A vote for a liberal is a vote to see Christians continue to receive special ridicule and be flogged more than a pi�ata during a Cinco de Mayo festival.
My ClashPoint is this: Modern liberalism tosses the scripture out on several different levels. How a true believer in the Christ defined by the scripture can buy into what Jesus, the prophets and apostles said and also what these secular thugs say is beyond me. In addition to liberalism�s obvious and odious pro-holocaust-like abortion stance, its anti-biblical view of marriage, its scripture-slamming aggressive secularism, and its feckless view of our nation�s defense, liberalism completely clashes with the Christian worldview. Secular liberalism�s aggressive desire to eradicate Christians� rights should cause Christians to be concerned.
The Democratic Party�s liberalism has degenerated over the last 40-50 years in regard to its view of Christianity and Christian rights. This party, which formerly embraced and protected our nation�s great Christian heritage and teachings, no longer does so. Thus, today the Christian is between a rock and a hard place: he can either be a Christian or a liberal, but he cannot be both.
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Not a one will be forsaken.
Not a one will be forsaken.
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Petra_Pete
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Re: forget debates ...
USELESS site... don't bother with it. YOu are given a choice of two annoying people of which you are to shoot one. The point of this is suppose to help you in the end who to know who to vote for. However, each screen has no right answer- either both should be "shot" or neither! In the end, no matter what combination you choose throughout, you get the same answer. I know that this site came recomended from a Canadian, or at least the post was from Canada, but NOT all Canadians are siding with Kerry, though the Canadian media makes it out as such. As a Canadian who has spent 8 years living in the States, I am praying that that Bush continues his presidency for another four years. Unfortunately, a vote for Kerry is being perceived as a vote against Bush and what he has been doing. It seems to me that it is either a vote for Bush or against Bush, but NOT vote for Kerry. I am convinced that many have not thought through the logical consequences of what a Kerry presidency could look like... (way higher taxes, a rise in world wide terrorism, greater U.S. isolation)... Bush isn't perfect and there are somethings I wish he would change, but Kerry is NOT the answer. I wonder if Kerry does win if many will look back in 2 or 3 years and say, "Crap, Bush was right. What have we done?"Matthew RJ wrote:http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/voter.php
Just my $0.02 worth.
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Petra Pete
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gman
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vote
Very perceptice 
Yes this has turned into a vote for against Bush. Hardly a smart decision, in my opinion, if you don't like Bush. Imagine if companies were run that way and Board of Directors decided to they would take anyone over the current head of the company just to get him out. That wouldn't be a good business decision.
Yes this has turned into a vote for against Bush. Hardly a smart decision, in my opinion, if you don't like Bush. Imagine if companies were run that way and Board of Directors decided to they would take anyone over the current head of the company just to get him out. That wouldn't be a good business decision.
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Okay, you guys know by now I cannot pass up posting in a thread like this.
Debbie is right. You cannot be a Christian and a knowingly liberal democrat. They are oxymorons.
Anyone who thinks it is a choice to kill unborn babies, condone homosexuality and same sex marriage, remove God from our patriotic emblems and anthems and considers themself to be a Christian is nothing more than an immoral hypocrit. More accurately, a wolf in sheeps clothing.
On the other hand, I believe there are a lot of ignorant democrats out there who vote in lock step with the party who have no idea what they're really doing or supporting. They are ignorant. And, they are really Republicans but don't realize it.
Debbie is right. You cannot be a Christian and a knowingly liberal democrat. They are oxymorons.
Anyone who thinks it is a choice to kill unborn babies, condone homosexuality and same sex marriage, remove God from our patriotic emblems and anthems and considers themself to be a Christian is nothing more than an immoral hypocrit. More accurately, a wolf in sheeps clothing.
On the other hand, I believe there are a lot of ignorant democrats out there who vote in lock step with the party who have no idea what they're really doing or supporting. They are ignorant. And, they are really Republicans but don't realize it.
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johnathan
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Ok guys I have a huge announcement to make. I AM RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT of---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------THE-------PETRA ZONE! I have to say that I like George Bush but everytime any election comes around why does there have to be so much poop slung around, and I mean on both sides. I can't wait till the LORD comes back and we won't have to worry with all the silly stuff,we can just Praise HIM! George and us all can listen to Petra play stuff! LOL!
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