I`m sad

[executioner]

Elo,

I'm am sorry but you are totally wrong on this issue. Here in the U.S. you lose your rights(if you had any in the first place) if you commit a federal crime. The first thing the illegals did when they entered this country was commit a federal crime, so in my mind they are wrong from the get go. They have commited a federal crime and should be dealt with like I would be dealt with if I would commit a federal crime. I'm sorry but that is the facts. If you are in the U.S. you follow the laws of the land, and they have chosen NOT too.

The government is NOT the employer of the illegals, so the government is NOT the one that is making them work for little money. These jobs are never reported to the IRS or any form of government, because if they were the government would heavily fine or maybe even close down the business.

Onto a personal note. I am married to a mexican national. I have known her for 5 years, and we have been married for over 2 years now. She went through the proper channels with the Mexican Consultant and the U.S. Embassy to get into the U.S. legally. Yes it took some time and also alot of work, but if you are patient enough and save $155 you can easily get in the U.S. and work and find a better life for you and your family. The only problem is the mexican government is very secretive about this, so you have to ask questions and go to the U.S. Embassy they will tell you everyting you have to do to properly get into the U.S.

[LexingtonPethead]

That's funny.

I have picked it up a little, but I think that picture stretches me out a little. I think it has to do with what I did to it to make it look the way it does.

[epdc]

I don`t understand the insurance thing, according to the news, the ilegals don`t have right to health care in Arizona, that`s what I`m mad about, I already said I understand that not all jobs offer health insurance.


Yeah, they have committed a crime for going there without the proper papers but if people REALLY wanna be fair then they shouldn`t hire them at all. I know is way hard to investigate all bussinesses and be sure they don`t ilegal people working.

If you guys would say to me: the law is being done, nobody is hiring ilegal people over there. I would like OK ya know because that`s fair, they got in without permission they deserve that. But still having them working over there and taking away the right for health care (that`s what Arizona`s government is doing) that`s what freaks me out.

Is not that easy to go to live over there excutioner, I know it because I known people who has been rejected even for the VISA for God`s sake!, and ya know, I understand, the 9/11 didn`t make it any easier to anyone but that`s why many people choose the ilegal way, even though is dangerous. do you know how much it cost an appointment for the VISA? just the appointment cost 200 dollars and there`s a possibilitie you don`t get it. Sometimes they don`t ask you for any papaer but when they do it you missed just one you prolly won`t get the VISA. I mean, I almost couldn`t get in the last time I went to Wisconsin! (and I had my VISA), thanks God I had everything there.

I`m not saying is right they are there, is NOT RIGHT, but we gotta be honest: they are working , they are not homeless that government has to deal with ,and as human beings they need health care (NOT INSURANCE).

and David, you gotta change that pic LOLOL

[executioner]

Elo,

Once again you keep saying the government is hiring these people and that is not the case.

[Enosh]

EXE,

That's my point. Elo, the government doesn't even know they are here individuly. People do things illegally sometimes in the US and everywhere else in the world. People hire American workers and don't report them to the government. It's called "Working Under the Table." The money is not reported to the IRS so the worker doesn't pay taxes.

These people also do not recieve health insurance because they are not supported on an insurance plan. They are out of the system. If someone can not come to America the legal way that has been established, then they shouldn't come. The government does track down people who hire illegals, and does fine them or shut the business down ELO. The border patrol does try to keep people from coming to America illegally. That being said, it doesn't mean that

1. They are going to catch everyone. Worker, or employer.
2. The people who slip through get health insurance.

the moment the government finds out they are in the country, they will get deported. So, maybe you're right. We should make health insurance for illegal aliens MANDATORY! That way as soon as they are reported to the government, the government can deport them. That is what would happen.

So this law only states the obvious. They are here illegally, if we find them here, we aren't going to pay for them to have health insurance because that would come out of our taxpayers dollars. Yes ELO, I would be paying for it. You can't just expect the US to say, "Ok, they came all this way. Sure it was illegally, but let's now pay for them because they want us to. I would like the government to pay for my health insurance (because I pay into it now) and buy me a new house. I work, I pay taxes, but I don't just get everything I want.

Then there is the point, "Mexico's government isn't taking care of Mexico's problems and making it better to live there, so the US should take care of it huh? And if they don't they are an evil government. ELO, I love ya but it sounds like you are making the US's power in the world work for you when it's convienent for your country. It's that kind of power that others and yourself have protested. But if it benefits Mexico it's alright? When does the US get to decide what's best for the US, wether it benefits everybody or not? If the US says that people who come to this country illegally don't get the same benefits as those born here, or here legally, then you make the decision wether or not it benefits you to come here. At least then you know what you're getting yourself into. You can't just cry that it's the governments fault.

America is a great country. It is a place where others bash it, then want to live here because of the opportunity in this country. Opportunity for those who follow the law, not those who try to break it. If people break the law then they have to pay the price for breaking the law. They will risk deportation in any case, but it needs to be known that just because some grape farmer in California hires illegal Mexican workers, it doesn't mean that the government approves of it, or that they will condone it by paying for health insurance that they don't need anyway, cause once they are discovered to need health care, it will be useless to them cause they are headed back to Mexico. So Elo, what you are really saying when you state that you want health insurance for illegal aliens is that you want the government to tag all illegals by registering them for a program that wouldn't be needed, just to do the job of deporting them. I say, "Don't waste all that time and effort. Just beef up the border patrol, crack down more on the people hiring the illegals, and step up deportation. That is really what you are asking for without realizing it.

As for the whole thing about the people who were killed to have this country and whatnot. Show me a country that doesn't have a bloody past. I wasn't here then, I didn't kill anyone. I don't hate anyone, and I didn't take anyone's land! For 200 years this land has been the United States of America and that's fine for me for now.

That was a very ignorant statement to make. I don't know if you were trying to sound like you were intelligently making a point, but you didn't. We are a country now, and countries get to make laws to protect their soverienty. Get off your soapbox, and deal with the fact that this country was here before you and will be here after you. Is it a good thing that people were killed? No, that's never a good thing, but the US is a place for everyone. All backrounds and ethnic diversities. Everyone has a place here, if they follow the laws and abide by the processes that have made this country so great. The USA is an awesome place to live, I love my country!

[epdc]

first of all, I never meant to make "an intelligent" comment about USA history, I just tried to make the point that ilegals are being treated like slaves since they will still working but without a right for health care (I used the word "insurance" by mistake, I apologyze for that, I understand not all jobs give insurance, what I meant was the right for having health care, thanks gman for marking the difference). My country has a slavery past too and I wouldn`t get offended if you bring it up. I`m sorry if I hurt your feelings


I understand that all the jobs were the ilegal people are are not registered in the government. I just think is taking advantage by taking away the right for health care and not the jobs. If government would do a research and close all ilegal jobs I wouldn`t say anything because is fair. My point of view is just that USA do need them for working but since they are not legal is a great opportunity for taking away the right for health care.


Though I do understand that`s a big complicated thing to do because there millions of ilegal mexicans over there, thousands of bussinesses and of course the people take care of their people, I know and understand it would be a HUGE complicated job to close all ilegal bussinesses.

But still, ilegals or not, they are making bussinesses work out and they are doing a lot not only for M�xico`s economy but also for USA economy, just imagine what would happen if all mexicans would disappear from California? or if all mexicans would disappear from the country and fileds areas?things would get bad believe me. I`m not justifying their ilegal living over there but considering they are doing something constructive over there they deserve a right for health care.

I never meant USA supposed to take care of M�xico`s problems NOT AT ALL, my point of mentioning that things aren`t easier here was that though I know is wrong they crossed the line I understand why they did it, that`s all.

And I don`t hate USA, in fact I wanna go to study over there a master degree hehehe

conclusion: I know that is wrong they be crossing ilegally to the USA, I know is wrong they get hired ilegally but I think is wrong that they won`t have a right for health care if they are working and helping in the economy of both countries. I`m sorry if I upset you guys but this is my point of view. and ....I LOVE YOU!!!!!!! please don`t take this personal PLEASEEEEEE the american petheads are a different topic

[executioner]

Elo,

If you really want to know. I could not even get healthcare in some hosiptals if I didn't have insurance. You can always go to the County hosiptal. They can not stop anybody from getting healthcare from one of those.

[epdc]

according to the news, they won`t have even that right anymore In Arizona

[brent]

I don't care for the fact that the term healthcare gets thrown all around when what is really meant is health insurance. Getting healthcare is a right. Everyone should have the right to get medical treatment, and most places in America it an be gotten. Health insurance is not a right. It is for those who have worked hard to, be able to pay for it, or to get a job that provides it for them. Most companies have insurance to pay the bills when someone gets hurt on the job, and if you are going to hire illegals you should pay their medical bills if they get hurt on the job. But, they shouldn't get regular health insurance for free. If they were to get health insurance courtesy of the US Gov't, then yes, I would be paying for it because my tax dollars would be used to cover the cost of their insurance.

The USA is a land of opportunity, not entiltlement. Health care is not a "right". That is absurd. That's like Bill Clinton saying that it is a "right" to have a car and the internet. It is an earned benefit. Come to out country legally, work legally, pay taxes legally, pay for your own doctor legally.

Unless you have owned a business, or have been accountable for P&L statement for a company (I am both), then saying anything other than rights spelled out in the constitution is going to sound ok to you, or an immigrant.

My family has adopted two children from Mexico. The government milked thousands upon thousands of dollars, and dragged a 12 month process out into 4 years before the children were allowed to leave. The orphanage got NO money. It went into a pocket of a corrupt official. I used to service companies (clubs and restaurants) in Mexico for a sound company. We saw all kinds of illegal shake-downs. Uncle Sam doesn't have clean hands, but let me tell you this. We do things mucho better up here. No wonder people want to come.

I used to live in Orange County CA. I saw illegals all of the time in my line of work. I will say that they DO work. I'm a cracker, and white people are lazy. BUT, I will say this. Come to OUR country, speak OUR language. It is your civic and fiscal duty to learn how to communicate. What other country can you go to and force them to change signs, tests, language? None. I'm in Oklahoma now, and they tried to change our official language to Spanish. Bull crap. We are okies, not hispanic. If anything we should be speaking Indian. Come here, take on our ideals, our ways, our language, our laws. Leave your country, leave your culture, leave your laws (or lack thereof) behind. That's my view.

I have a BIG problem with nationals and foriegners using the hospital emergency room as their primary health provider. The hospitals get screwed out of money, which means I pay for it with tax money. I wish people would get their hands out of my pockets, and that includes my own government. Charity is the churches role, not the governments.

Also, there is a big vacuum of American cash. Legals work here, live four and five families to a house, and send their money out of the country, so that it doesn't benefit the local economy. On the flip side, there are SSI benefits that will never be paid out, because so many illegals are using bogus I-9 information. I don't think that they cancel each other out.

[epdc]

so you are comparing health care (something that has to do with your life) with an stupid car and an stupid internet????

I`m not fighing or mad, I just think is a bad example....

I`m sorry Brent, maybe I don`t understand very well (english is not my native language), but what was the point you were trying to make on your post??, sorry!!! I didn`t understand!!!

[LexingtonPethead]

The USA is a land of opportunity, not entiltlement. Health care is not a "right". That is absurd. That's like Bill Clinton saying that it is a "right" to have a car and the internet. It is an earned benefit. Come to out country legally, work legally, pay taxes legally, pay for your own doctor legally.

Unless you have owned a business, or have been accountable for P&L statement for a company (I am both), then saying anything other than rights spelled out in the constitution is going to sound ok to you, or an immigrant.

My family has adopted two children from Mexico. The government milked thousands upon thousands of dollars, and dragged a 12 month process out into 4 years before the children were allowed to leave. The orphanage got NO money. It went into a pocket of a corrupt official. I used to service companies (clubs and restaurants) in Mexico for a sound company. We saw all kinds of illegal shake-downs. Uncle Sam doesn't have clean hands, but let me tell you this. We do things mucho better up here. No wonder people want to come.

I used to live in Orange County CA. I saw illegals all of the time in my line of work. I will say that they DO work. I'm a cracker, and white people are lazy. BUT, I will say this. Come to OUR country, speak OUR language. It is your civic and fiscal duty to learn how to communicate. What other country can you go to and force them to change signs, tests, language? None. I'm in Oklahoma now, and they tried to change our official language to Spanish. Bull crap. We are okies, not hispanic. If anything we should be speaking Indian. Come here, take on our ideals, our ways, our language, our laws. Leave your country, leave your culture, leave your laws (or lack thereof) behind. That's my view.

I have a BIG problem with nationals and foriegners using the hospital emergency room as their primary health provider. The hospitals get screwed out of money, which means I pay for it with tax money. I wish people would get their hands out of my pockets, and that includes my own government. Charity is the churches role, not the governments.

Also, there is a big vacuum of American cash. Legals work here, live four and five families to a house, and send their money out of the country, so that it doesn't benefit the local economy. On the flip side, there are SSI benefits that will never be paid out, because so many illegals are using bogus I-9 information. I don't think that they cancel each other out.

A lot of great points, Brent. I bet Mexico wouldn't like it very much if Americans came in and tried to change the official language to English, or if Americans came in and refused to learn Spanish and expected everyone to adapt their culture around ours.

But what is a "cracker"? I've never heard that one before. And do you really think white people are lazy? I don't think laziness can be stereotyped to any particular race or nationality.

[brent]

Yes. People here expect certain things to be free to them, or paid for by the government. They think that the government is a big pot of money. They think that because they are in America, that they are owed money, health care, etc.

Some people here purposely report lower income, so that they can get money from the government, I mean their hard-working neighbors, for free food, free education, free rent, or partially free rent. They generally have poor credit, and leave debt behind them where ever they go. It is these people that like the democrats, because the democrats like to give them these things, in exchange for votes. The Republicans want it to stop. So do I.

It was former President Bill Clinton that made the statement that all Americans have a right to health care, cars and internet. He was a moron. Correction. He still is a moron.

It was his and his wife's dream to bring in socialist health care like Canada's. I have Canadian musician and medical (brain surgury) friends. They will tell you that waiting 6 months for a doctors appointment is bad. Dental visits are scheduled 1 year out. They had to plan out their pregnantcy.

People will not be happy until socialistic communism (where all share the wealth from one pot equally, except the politicians and the ultra rich) takes off here. There is an active US communist movement. They even have a website. They even endorsed Kerry this year.

I believe just as our forefathers, that the government should do one thing, and that is protect us from nations abroad, and the government itself. If you work, you spend wisely, you invest, you are charitable, you are doing God's will, then you are being a good steward of the citizenship. If not, you are part of the problem.

[brent]

There are more white people on wellfare than black. Yep.

[LexingtonPethead]

Yes. People here expect certain things to be free to them, or paid for by the government. They think that the government is a big pot of money. They think that because they are in America, that they are owed money, health care, etc.

Some people here purposely report lower income, so that they can get money from the government, I mean their hard-working neighbors, for free food, free education, free rent, or partially free rent. They generally have poor credit, and leave debt behind them where ever they go. It is these people that like the democrats, because the democrats like to give them these things, in exchange for votes. The Republicans want it to stop. So do I.

It was former President Bill Clinton that made the statement that all Americans have a right to health care, cars and internet. He was a moron. Correction. He still is a moron.

It was his and his wife's dream to bring in socialist health care like Canada's. I have Canadian musician and medical (brain surgury) friends. They will tell you that waiting 6 months for a doctors appointment is bad. Dental visits are scheduled 1 year out. They had to plan out their pregnantcy.

People will not be happy until socialistic communism (where all share the wealth from one pot equally, except the politicians and the ultra rich) takes off here. There is an active US communist movement. They even have a website. They even endorsed Kerry this year.

I believe just as our forefathers, that the government should do one thing, and that is protect us from nations abroad, and the government itself. If you work, you spend wisely, you invest, you are charitable, you are doing God's will, then you are being a good steward of the citizenship. If not, you are part of the problem.

You make a lot of sense, Brent. But remember that we just had a national poll a few weeks ago, and most people in America agree with you, and we re-elected George Bush. The democratic party is really hurting right now, and deservedly so. I think that as more people discover just how liberal and socialistic the world is outside the US, the more we will become conservative as a nation because they don't want to see happen to America what is happening in other countries like Canada.

[LexingtonPethead]

There are more white people on wellfare than black. Yep.

Is this your answer to the "lazy" stereotype? At face value, there would have to be more white people on welfare than black people if for no other reason than because whites still make up the vast majority of the US population. Not because whites are more lazy. I still say laziness cannot be stereotyped.