Record Companies

[PetfanInCt]

Well is it very clear to me from reading messages from Brent and others in the "business, puke" that the record companies could give 2 crappers about spreading the Gospel of Jesus Christ. To them its all about what sells. If they were for spreading the Gospel of Jesus and getting the word out they wouldnt care about what would sell or what wouldn't sell, because its supposed to be about Jesus period. Its perfectly clear that its not about Jesus at all. Its about invoices and the bottom line. If it was about Jesus it wouldn't matter how much money they made on the deal. The important issue would be getting the Word out on Jesus not how many units get sold.

So whatever is the fad at the time even if its a watered down message if it sells then thats what were going to get.

In Christ
Rich

[Shell]

Brent does understand how the industry works, Rich. And if it wasn't for the record companies, we wouldn't have Petra's CDs. I do understand what you're trying to say, but the idea is to make money, and there's nothing intrinsically wrong with that.

[brent]

Brent does understand how the industry works, Rich. And if it wasn't for the record companies, we wouldn't have Petra's CDs. I do understand what you're trying to say, but the idea is to make money, and there's nothing intrinsically wrong with that.

Amen.

The thought of a record company being the "bad guy" is wrong, does not make sense to me. They are merely the people that make things happen for people that can't do it, don't know how to do it, etc.

In today's market, this is a necessary thing IF you want major market airplay, tour support, etc. That my friends still drives 90% of all record sales. Only 10% is done via the internet.

To be a business (and a profitable one) you have to abide by the laws of supply and demand like everyone else. You can't sell crap that a majority of the people do not want, but you can sell train loads of CRAP to a majority that wants it. You have finance, law, taxes, marketing, operations and administrative management considerations and expenses. It is not that the label's are turning backs to the world. because the "world" is not listening (on average the church isn't either).

When it comes to products (CD's) it is the fact that people have heard that presentation before, it is old, and so they want something else, because their attention spand is on 3.5 minutes long. It's the same way with church. Do your pastors deliver the same sermon to every age group every Sunday? No way.

From my experience, it is the people closest to the artists that have the convictions, the desire to do ministry and do good works through their products. It is my observation (only that because no man knows another man's heart), that the further up the management, law, accounting ladder you step, there is an increase in business sense. These people are accountable to their owners to make the operations work at a profit. They are working "as if unto God".

There are stories o' plenty of producers and exec's REALLY believing in an artist to the point of mortgaging their homes/assets, just to see them sold off at auction, because the public didn't bite on the artist. There are some closed labels in Nashville with wharehouses full of killer music that we will never hear, because a test market didn't like it. It wasn't the message, It was the delivery.

My point is that when it comes down to it, the Christian music labels cater NOT to the "world", but to the Church. Period. And, most will tell you that it is the Christian soccer mom, during drive-time. So, the statement about spreading the gospel not being important is not necessarily wrong, but it isn't right either. It is the Church (you and I) that were commissioned to "Go ye therefore into all the world, preaching the Gospel..." Selling Jesus is a weird deal. So they sell Christian entertainment that ministers. The best way to win souls is by confrontation on a one-to-one level, meeting people where they are. Jesus gave us the model, not the record company.

[Dan]

This is should be in the off-topic section it needs to be moved.

[PetfanInCt]

Brent,

You and I dont see eye to eye on this and its ok. No matter how much Holy spin is put on the process or the system, it still stinks. Sounds more like a system setup by mammon then anything else.

The music in those warehouses your talking about should be let out. But again the system is setup for mammon..People can take scripture and tiwist it around all day to manipulate it to suit there needs and for they're gain. Fact of the matter is it stinks.

In general its not about our precious LORD and Savior Jesus Christ and his message. Its about our own gains and a system that is setup for us to gain..To stuff our pockets. Christians need to wake up and smell the coffee. We are in the World not part of it.

In Christ

Rich

[crossways]

PetraFaninCT,

I don't think you are listening and thinking about what anyone on this board is saying. Which tells me that you are purposly being argumentative or you are not willing to objectively look at the real world situation.

We are called to be "in" the world, not of it. So as a Christian who wants to see the Gospel proclaimed I have to play by the same rules as everyone else - it's my message and conduct that is different, not the game itself.

All of the greatest music in the world does no good if a kid won't buy it. And as someone who works in a public school, let me tell you that kids have very discerning tastes. They can spot a phony (musically) from a mile away.

Now, I am all for music that is edifying for the believer. Thank God for Petra when I was a teen, because that music was safe for me, and beneficial - as I learned so much Scripture from them.

But many bands today want to reach lost kids. And a lost kid is not going within 10 feet of the Christian music section. So Christian performers who have this calling have to present themselves in a way that says, "I am a 'real' person." Non-Christian kids just don't think that most of the Christian community are real. And that is from my personal experience witnessing in schools to students.

In order to get into places like TV, video, radio, stores, etc. the product MUST be marketed in the right way.

So you can complain about how hard it is to get the Gospel out in this way, or you can support the bands and companies who are trying to put out a product that is better than the secular counterparts, and is going to be purchased. Support them through prayer, buying their cd's and other merchandise, and going to their concerts.

[sue d.]

One thing I did to 'get the musical message out to unbelievers" was to hold a concert, outdoors, in a city park - FREE to anyone who wanted to hear. We had a committee to work on this - and work we did - but with lots of advertising and promo, we hoped to expose people to a different genre of music that, like others have said, is considered blah & boring.

Listening to a recorded CD is a lot different than hearing a live band.... the noise draws those who would otherwise take a CD in hand and go "ugh... Christian music... eh... no thanks."

By having a free show anyone walking by can stop, listen, and hopefully learn a bit - or at the very least - pique their interest. I know not everyone has the resources to do that. Again, money makes the world go around - you do have to pay for things. The Gospel is free - but the means in which to promote it is not.

We've heard from others on this board who gave J&H to their friends to listen to - and they were greatly surprised that what they heard was coming from a Christian band.

Either way - it's really up to the individual - US - to "go into all the world" ... or to simply go next door.

[Preacherman777]

By and large the money behind the Christian music business is no longer coming from Christian sources and so at the business end of the supply chain you are just not going to find Christian values anymore. There was a time that it was somewhat different. Back in the 70's for instance, many of the early Christian rock bands got started via the financial support of other Christians. Pat Boone for one helped to finance some of these early bands. That fact alone made it much it much easier to promote the gospel regardless of the potential financial gain. Yet at the same time, this was time when much of the church itself was speaking out against Christian rock and therefore money was by no means plentiful.

Back then, more of the Christian labels that did exist were much more willing to work with the artist, because they tended to share the same values. For example, when Keith Green was on Sparrow records he insisted that if people couldn't afford to buy one of his albums, then they'd get one for whatever they could afford, even if that was nothing. Even back then this didn't go over easy, but they did accept it and that is the way he ran things til the day he died and Melody (his wife) continued the practice even after he died. I honestly believe that in our modern day no big "Christian" label out there would allow that.

I have no doubt the record companies have every legal right to surpress any unauthorized distribution of the music they own. The only real question is whether or not (as "Christian labels") they should. In my opinion, if the music is or has the potential to be commercially viable, I can see them keeping it under lock and key. However, if it's not and as in the case of the CITS video, has not been for almost 20 years, then they ought to let it go. It would be the right thing to do. But I no longer expect Christian labels to do the right thing, because there is no sense of conscience there that would drive them to make that choice.

Let's face it. These labels have the power they have because we give it to them with our dollars. So maybe we are just as guilty of serving money as we like to believe the record companies are. I for one would love to see more bands succeed as indi bands, but that's a really tough row to hoe, because we tend to throw our money at the labels and not at the indi bands.

[PetfanInCt]

I dont have anything else to add to this thread

Godbless Peace

Rich

[PetfanInCt]

Well I guess I have yet one more thing to say..But after this nothing else..

I'll just say I''m poor i'm on disability, and that shouldnt mean a decreased access to Gods music.

Godbless and Peace..

Rich

[Preacherman777]

I agree with you, Rich.

[Shell]

The argument that one should have access to music even though they can't afford it doesn't quite hold water when you stop to think about it. If someone can't afford to buy music they want, how is it they can afford a computer and Internet connection to download music?

As people have pointed out, the Message may be free but promotion is not.

[crossways]

PetraFaninCT,

I mean this in all sincereity; if you PM me your address and tell me a cd/dvd that you want, I'll send it.

However, that really isn't the point you have been making. It seems to me you expect a high quality musical product and that you expect that product to be delivered very cheaply and for free. The reality is if you want a free or cheap cd, then you'll have to grab my band's demo. It only has four tracks and was produced in just about 18 hours total. It cost us $900. Which isn't a lot by industry standards and you can tell.

Quality costs. Period.


Preacherman77,
I wanted to be clear about you comment. Did you mean CITAS be reissued by whoever owns the rights? or Did you mean whoever owns the rights should allow it to be copied and distributed by whoever has a copy of it?

If you meant the second statement, then I kind of agree. It may be that they are waiting to see if an opportunity presents itself so they can benefit from a reissue, though.

_____________________________

I think we need to go a bit deeper when considering record companies. Remember that there are often many people employed by them. Secretaries, janitors, warehouse employees, factory employees, etc. - all of whom benefit when the company does well. Sure there are fat cat CEO's looking at the bottom line, but often that bottom line includes making sure that all of the employees are taken care of.

[Tutor23]

There needs to be balance in everything in life. One can't work for free, or one can't support one's family or oneself. Paul made tents to support himself so as not to be a burden to the fledgling churches he was apostling. Some pastors today are in similar situations. It's usually not ideal - for them or their flocks.

Petra and other Christian artists are in ministry, and their "labor is worth their hire." This is Scriptural. So long as one isn't involved in improper motives (e.g., serving the god Money), I see nothing wrong with earning a living by ministering to others. This is, in my opinion, a widely misconstrued concept among many Christians.

Foolishness in business yields the eventual collapse of that person's (or group of persons) ability to continue in that endeavor. Yes, there are some who bear the name of "Christ" in vain, serving mammon instead of God. But don't lump everyone who ministers for a living into that group of misguided folks.

Just remember - if Petra (or substitute your favorite Christian artist) can't earn a living in music ministry, guess what happens? No more music happens (or at least no more high quality music) because the talented folks are doing something else to put food on the table and pay the mortgage. I for one don't want to see that happen.
Respectfully,
Andy

[Jonathan]

I just figured God poofed together all these bands and cds and tours and all that.