The Petra Zone

1. Bush is wrong about Muslims, in that the true Muslim faith is not a faith at all, but a political system. Bush is right that not all Muslims adhear to that, but that makes them untrue Muslims.

2. No nation in the world has ever taken the Muslim faith, unless defeated in battle. Again, they are a political system.

3. We are the only nation to date to let these bozos in to our country, let them set up masques in major cities, and get more rights to practice than Christians have in our own dang country.

4. They are hostile. They say that they want peace, but through conquering. They never adhear to any agreements, EVER! It is history.

5. So, whether I agree with Bush or not, or know whether he actually said those things in the story (Lord knows the press is hardly ever right on everything), I must say that we are not going far enough. We need to remove the masques from our nation's landscape.

When the puritans came, they wanted freedom to practice Christianity (in multiple forms), and not have to answer to the Church of England, the King (who ruled over the church), and the King's laws and taxation.

People that come to this country should have been taught that this is our heritage. This is what we are. Don't like it? Don't come. Keep your crap in your country. We don't want it. But minority who really run this country have changed the founding documents to match the times, and so now it means that we are a big orgy of everything. ALL countries to become this have fallen from dominance!!

6. If it is them or us (and I believe it is) then it is my personal feeling that we should first try to evangelize first. They don't want Jesus Christ? They kill our missionaries? (proven fact) Wipe them out.

These are my personal feelings. So flame on. These are people that cannot be reasoned with. They have no conscience. They are so indoctrinated that death brings reward, that they have no incentive to respect life.

Amen Brent. The radical Muslims are the only true practicing Muslims and they should be rooted out as those being guilty of treason.

It's amazing how so many people realize that our constitution did not protect people that wanted to overthrow it. That is the equivalent of a declaration of war.

Brent, if you get time you should look at some of the information at the Highlands Study Center and Cumberland Books, started by RC Sproul, JR. I know you won't agree with much of their theology. But I think you will see a lot there that you will find interesting, challenging, and may even strike a real cord with you.

http://highlands.gospelcom.net/

www.cumberlandbooks.org

BForm wrote:Amen Brent. The radical Muslims are the only true practicing Muslims and they should be rooted out as those being guilty of treason.

It's amazing how so many people realize that our constitution did not protect people that wanted to overthrow it. That is the equivalent of a declaration of war.

Brent, if you get time you should look at some of the information at the Highlands Study Center and Cumberland Books, started by RC Sproul, JR. I know you won't agree with much of their theology. But I think you will see a lot there that you will find interesting, challenging, and may even strike a real cord with you.

http://highlands.gospelcom.net/

www.cumberlandbooks.org

I like RC Sproul. I catch his radio programs on the BOT radio network. He has some very enlightening observations. I have only heard his son fill in for him when he was under the weather. Seems to be ALOT like dad. Thanks for the links.

Why does America bomb innocent people for oil?

America the new babylon?

You listen to too much liberal media.

It isn't about oil. If it were, we would have TAKEN the oil.

The type of oil that we DO get from them is not oil that we refine for transportation fuels. It is mostly lubrication oil for machinery used in manufacturing, etc. We don't import enough of it to make a dramatic difference to us. That's why rising gas prices made so many people mad. Especially people that work in the oil industry in my home town, that know where our gasoline comes from.

You need to talk to soldiers that have returned. I have friends over there. I have talked to returning soldiers. They told me that what we see and hear on the news is so far removed from normal operations over there that it's almost not the truth. It is true for small pockets, but not the whole country. People are naming their children "Bush"!! The people are happy to be out from under the satanic, mofia-like family rulers.

Keep watching the news and then talk to people that are in the event and you will understand my motive for writing the song Liar:

(Verse 1)
Were you there when history was made,
Mortified by headlines of the day?
Memories no longer match their truth.
World changers lie to dying youth.

(This is about the school books having the wrong history now, the liberal newspapers changing or printing incorrect stories with no retractions, the talking heads on TV dishing out pure BS, and people buy it! The people that are on the fron lines of major events have memories, and they do not match what is reported to us. This is shaping the youth's view of the world, which effects policy when they vote, which takes us down the toilet even further!!)

(Verse 2)
Are you tired of hating how you feel,
once the stimulus no longer heals,
giving up the last time one more time
to seducing voices in your mind?

(Bridge)
These mere distractions,
knee jerk reactions,
their taking their toll.
It's time to do some damage control.

(Chorus)
He's the liar, liar, liar!
He sounds good for a while, he's a liar, liar, liar!
Don't give into the words of a liar, liar, liar!
Turn away or you'll burn with the liar, liar, lair!
Don't give in to the lure of a two faced liar.

(Verse 3)
Vows are broken, there's no place like home.
Deceptions burning holes right through your soul.
Your hope for living's come and gone.
That is a lie to keep your life undone.

(Repeat Bridge)

(Repeat Chorus)

(Bridge 2)
I will make you just like me,
give you everything,
live eternally.
Just follow.

(Repeat Chorus)

Good lyrics and also fitting for what your talking about.

A-man, I don't know how old you are or what you're listening to for news, but you really need to think through this more.

If this really were about oil, this is not the way we would do it. After toppling Saddam and seeing pockets of resistance, the US would have said to hades with Turkey and the rest of the world's opinion, and put all it's efforts into the oil rich Kurdish territory.

The Kurds truly do love us and are creating one of the most open societys in the Middle East. In fact, if you get e-mails and free publications from Voice of the Martyrs, and I wish you would, you would hear that churches are popping up all over Iraq, but especially in the Kurdish territory where they are showing unprecedented tolerance for other faiths.

By putting all of our efforts into the Kurdish territory we could make that one of the safest, most open places in the Middle East, and just forget about the rest of Iraq. Then we could control most of the oil, protect the oilfields, and protect the people much better than we can spread out all over the country.

But that isn't what we're doing, is it? What should that tell you? Do you really think the entire administration doesn't realize we could do this?

Why does America bomb innocent people for oil? Well, because it's the right thing to do. Let me explain. The so-called innocent people of Iraq are just that. Innocent. They did nothing to deserve the horrors of living under Saddam Hussein. We went over there and put an end to all that. Yes, some of them had to die in the process. That's just a harsh reality of war. I suspect very few died compared to past wars. Now that they are free, those innocent people can have control of the oil and their own destiny as a free nation.
If we were really all about getting rid of innocent people to get oil for ourselves, we would have wiped the U.S. clean of leftist wackos years ago and started drilling in every spot we own where there is oil!

Dump the cliched rhetoric and talk real ideas. I dare you!

bombing innocent people for oil the right thing?????? as a "Christian nation" that believes that at death all those who have never heard of Jesus Christ and His sacrifice burn in 'hell' forever and ever and ever.......isn't that statement a little disconcerting? aren't we supposed to LOVE our enemies? Just a thought.

Come on. Haven't you heard people say that they loved someone to death? Just kidding.

Let's not take the love our enemies out of context. God himself sent Israel to battle against people in their way/land. Did God make a boo boo? God himself opened up the earth and killed his enemies. God himself rained burning sulpher rock on his enemies. His enemies are our enemies. There is righteous judgement, and righteous justice. God loves the balance of the law.

Let's not to take the physical and make it too spiritual. It complicates things and makes the bible say what it does not say.

True. If our enemies wanted peace, we'd give it to them. They want war. Therefore we need to defend ourselves.

There's such a thing as "omission"-aries, too. As in, not out on the streets converting the masses so they don't burn.

I was speaking more of the "innocent" bystanders who have been killed in an attempt to get Bin Laden. If we truly understood what the concept of "burning forever & ever & ever" meant I don't think we would be glib about the situation. I hear ministers say that eternal punishment in fire is justice for those who have never heard of the Name of Jesus and that concerns me. Justice??????

One more thing.......I vote republican for the most part and support Pres. Bush. Not hanging out on the liberal end.

I don't remember in the Bible where this story is but it has stuck in my mind for many years.

God told (I believe) King Saul and the Israelites to go to this certain country and slay and burn everything these people had and not to bring their cattle, women, children, or other valueable possessions back with them. A course Israel didn't listen. The thing that catches me in this story is that the Israelites were told to kill even the innocent women and children because of their faith in other gods. Do you think God could be using the U.S. in the middle east bacause of what these peoples beliefs are?

Chuck wrote:I hear ministers say that eternal punishment in fire is justice for those who have never heard of the Name of Jesus and that concerns me. Justice??????

Don't get caught up in what MAN says. Get caught up in what GOD says. Men will not always handle the two edged sword with kindness. Men will not alway interpret it correctly.

The human race is sinful.

Romans 3:23-24
"Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus."

There is judgement

Hebrews 9:27
"It is appointed unto man once to die, after this the judgement."

There is salvation and eternal life after death here

John 3:16
"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him, should not perish, but have everlasting life.

I John 5:13
"These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God."

Anyone in the church age can be saved

Romans 10:12-14
"For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

Christ's death, burial and resurrection covers all from the beginning of the world to the end of the world.

Hebrews 9:25-28
"Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;
For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation."

Galatians 3:6-9
"Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham."

All creation knows that there is "God".

Romans 1:18-32

"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

God permits free will

Acts 14:16
"In earlier days he permitted all the nations to go their own ways,"

Acts 17:30-31
"God overlooked people's former ignorance about these things, but now he commands everyone everywhere to turn away from idols and turn to him. For he has set a day for judging the world with justice by the man he has appointed, and he proved to everyone who this is by raising him from the dead."

There were/are people that are not supposed to be in the Kingdom of God, because God has declared it.

Duet 23:1-4
"He that is wounded in the stones, or hath his privy member cut off, shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD. A bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the LORD. An Ammonite or Moabite shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to their tenth generation shall they not enter into the congregation of the LORD for ever: Because they met you not with bread and with water in the way, when ye came forth out of Egypt; and because they hired against thee Balaam the son of Beor of Pethor of Mesopotamia, to curse thee.

Judgement is different for those who rejected Christ's messengers vs. Christ in person.

Matt 11:23
"And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day."

Matt 10:15
"Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city."

I hate to get into the whole "election" thing, but it is true. I don't know for a fact, but I have to think that God was giving a prophecy when he says that a nation up to the tenth generation shall not enter the congregation, etc. Only he knows the alpha and omega of all things since He created everything, and he knows no linear time line. Maybe God
forknew that these people up until the tenth generation would not have come to Him anyway. Maybe he knew that their actions against Israel were threatening, or would have threatened the "plan". Only God knows. "His ways are not our ways."

People can say what they want. God himself wiped people from the face of the planet. God himself chose who should and should not enter into the kingdom at a few points in history. He took his time getting Jesus Christ on the scene. Many millions of people knew that there was "a god", but didn't realize who "THE TRUE GOD" was, because he had not been revealed to them in specifically yet. There are people that will never know Christ.

What we do know is that God is a just God. He holds the balance of justice. But, I also believe that God allows what to us would seem uncontrollable grey matter, but to Him would be no surprise, because He knows all. This grey matter I believe is the reaction or non reaction to Godly induced, or satanicly induced events.

There are many points in history where God "changed his mind" so to speak, at the request of a holy man with his heart in the right place. But on the other hand, God knew that would happen too.

So, is there Hell? Yes. Will there be anyone in it that doesn't deserve to be? No.

Matt 12:29-31
"Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house. He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad. Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

Certainly we don't bomb innocent people for the heck of it, or for our own greedy gain. Sometimes the right thing to do is difficult and people will get hurt in the process. Like, when we helped Kuwait kick Iraq out of its country and protect the oil for the Kuwaiti people. Innocent people may have died, but that's a reality of war and a small price to pay in comparison to what would have happended if we did nothing. This time around, we ousted Saddam from power. We didn't bomb to get oil for ourselves, but rather to turn the oil over to the people, and spread freedom. And also to begin changing the face of the middle east. Something no person on the left that I have encountered wants to talk about.