Five Iron Frenzy: Key to the Future of the Music Industry?

[separateunion]

I know the title is a bit hyperbolic, but the return of Five Iron Frenzy and how they are going about making a new album and touring is something I've never seen before. The following three articles discuss Five Iron Frenzy's comeback and how it is finding success despite the backing of a record label. Granted, the way they are doing things only works for a band with an already established fan base (maybe Classic Petra could take notes here), but a similar approach with some tweaks could prove successful for unknown bands in the future.

http://iamtunedup.com/2011/11/23/the-fu ... on-frenzy/

http://thescreamingtruth.com/page1/file ... turns.html

http://www.relevantmagazine.com/culture ... ron-frenzy

[sue d.]

Very interesting.... been wondering and scratching my head thinking about how they did that... not that these articles give THE answers, but they bring up interesting points.

Having done John's Kickstarter campaign, there IS a TON of work involved (and it doesn't end when the goal is met -- that's just the beginning!). But I've never seen anyone on there jump that fast. Amazing.

Thanks for the links!

[brent]

I do not see why Classic Petra needs to take notes. People either want to hear music from them, or they do not. Plain and simple. The age old problem is finding the right people and putting music in their hands for cash in return. When the world does not know they are around, and the world does not pay for music much, then there is not much Classic Petra can do, but continue playing to an ever shrinking church crowd, which btw has less disposable income now more than ever.

Re: all of these sites. People can order a CD in advance and/or send money to an artist before and/or after the album is made. None of this is new. People have been paying for pre-orders since the beginning of the business. Those people were the labels. The labels would sell to the reps, pay the reps to get promotion, pay the retailers for the choice placement in the stores, the radio stations with the ideal listeners to advertise...uh, I mean play the music. The only thing that is changing is who is handling the money and how the money is given and the artist no longer has a machine behind them to make them work.

Consumers are now strong armed into doing free work that the artist use to receive. Some of the best selling records were not the best musically, but were in the right place at the right time via marketing/positioning. The consumer is now expected to be on a street team or man the computers and phones. Forget that. The consumer is the advertiser, the marketer, the distributor. Heck, I liked it when records and CDs cost a little more, and I did not have to do anything but buy and enjoy the product. All of this being connected bull crap is making everyone a freakin Amway salesman for something or someone. Everyone I meet has a motive. Everyone wants something or is working me for an angle on money, information to other friends and their money. Well, I hate it all. I am ready for the wheel to turn back around, and it is slowly getting there. I am ready for there to be less musical choices, increased quality, fewer online retailers, and more brick and mortar stores staffed with music lovers.

[separateunion]

I do not see why Classic Petra needs to take notes.

Most of what you said reads as if you didn't even bother to look at what the links were talking about, but rather assumed what I was discussing and then went off on several rant tangents that have little coherence to the original point. One of the reasons CP should take notes is because labels are becoming a thing of the past. Social media is how you promote yourself, and if you do it right, you can do your own thing without being tied to management or a label. This is especially the case with CP because they have an already existent fan base and they don't need to tour heavily.

Re: all of these sites. People can order a CD in advance and/or send money to an artist before and/or after the album is made. None of this is new. People have been paying for pre-orders since the beginning of the business. Those people were the labels. The labels would sell to the reps, pay the reps to get promotion, pay the retailers for the choice placement in the stores, the radio stations with the ideal listeners to advertise...uh, I mean play the music. The only thing that is changing is who is handling the money and how the money is given and the artist no longer has a machine behind them to make them work.

Right. If the band is handling the money, that means they have more control, more say and less hassle. They also make more off of the album sales. You can spin it however you want, but this IS a new way of doing things. Using social media to engage your fans and promote yourself while also asking them to help you pay for a new album is unheard of, but very effective if you have a dedicated fan base.

Consumers are now strong armed into doing free work that the artist use to receive. Some of the best selling records were not the best musically, but were in the right place at the right time via marketing/positioning. The consumer is now expected to be on a street team or man the computers and phones. Forget that. The consumer is the advertiser, the marketer, the distributor.

This is where you really go off on a tangent. Where did any of the links discuss anyone doing free work? Later you talk about street teams. Again, something that has nothing to do with what's being discussed. In this scenario, the band did practically all of the work themselves, but they were smart about it, built up enthusiasm and excitement, and continue to interact with fans after the big announcement.

Heck, I liked it when records and CDs cost a little more.

Sorry, but this is just crazy. I'm sick of being gouged by labels so that the artist can make $1.33 a sale. I'm not sure how you can advocate this on one hand, and then get mad at people for downloading music for free on the other.

Everyone I meet has a motive. Everyone wants something or is working me for an angle on money, information to other friends and their money. Well, I hate it all. I am ready for the wheel to turn back around, and it is slowly getting there. I am ready for there to be less musical choices, increased quality, fewer online retailers, and more brick and mortar stores staffed with music lovers.

Yet you scoff at artists eschewing labels in favor of doing it themselves. Hmm...

[brent]

Nope. I know exactly what was posted and I did not need to re-read what I already knew.

My premise is specifically targeted at the new fad idea of Kickstart. It will work for some, for a while, but it is not the answer.

As far as more money in the bands hands, that is a farce. Today, people are not spending what they used to, to make records. The amount of money raised by some of the artists on Kickstart is nice for an indie artist for sure. I have made records for less. Realistically, these small budgets just do not cover everything that it takes to make a record, unless the artist already owns a proper studio and/or has the ability to get services for free. But still, that studio and gear must be expensed and at the end of the year must be accounted for somehow.

There are plenty of studies out there revealing that social media works only for some markets. If the artist is young and the music is relevant to that generation, then yes. For an older crowd that by and large is not tied to the internet or into social networking, not so much. You cannot take one tool and broad brush it across the whole industry and say it works.

There was a band followed on iTunes. The six guys work 14 hours a day to sell their 1,000 downloads per week. Fine. Nice number. At the end of the day, when they looked at their net profit of .04 cents per play divided by the amount of time invest at the minimum wage, they were in the hole BIGTIME. So, to assume that the artist just has to social network and the money rolls in is a big mistake. Sue will tell you otherwise as well. There is ALLOT of time required to do what a few well connected people at a label can do.

The major labels are nearly gone. True, but new labels are emerging and will come back. Heck, we are seeing the demise of the stranglehold of one entity running the show. Spotify is on it's way in the toilet. They cannot generate enough money and they sure can't pay anyone who wants more than the .004 mechanical royalty per play. Rapsody...pffff. The facts are that iTunes and these other services have never been able to replace the revenues generated by physical sales, and they have eliminated the very jobs required to sustain the industry. Had it not been for an industry to start with, there would have been no way these services could have existed to begin with. They bastardized an industry and left it for dead. They have not solved the problem of "exposure" and "longevity" because they have based it on technology and alienated people who do not have the technology.

Since you are not an artist or work for them, you do not understand just how much money ISN'T made today. If people want to succeed today, they MUST play live. That is fact. Bon Jovi is on record stating that every album is a loss and they do not care if they do another. They only get revenue from shows. Album sales are dead. How else would one be able to live unless they play live? Now, I am open to some new streaming concepts, so that people in remote locations can get access, but usually people in remote locations do not have the bandwidth or speed to participate glitch free...yet.

Re: bands handling money. This is the worst thing they can do. Rule of thumb. You never, well, mostly never, want artists, musicians, athletes, etc handing their own money and making their own business decisions. They are not accountants, lawyers, etc. They do not think with that side of their brain. That is not to say that some people have made great businessmen. Sammy Hagar, Gene Simmons and few others are good examples. They are not the norm. Look how many snort, blow, shoot, drink, crash, divorce their money. I think the problem to this point is that Classic Petra has been a mom and pop operation, and while these guys know a few things, they need help.

You keep alluding to a dedicated fan base. Where are they? Why haven't they all bought a CD? If they all have, the band is in trouble. I do not believe they all have. The question is, how does the band find those people? How does the band inform those people of their existence and inspire them to spend money? If the band knew, they would have played a large North American tour. They don't, so they didn't. THIS is why you need deep pockets and connections to get the word out, get the band on the road without mortgaging their homes and retirement funds (remember those?). There are not enough fans to pay Louie, Mark, John, Bob and Greg the median wage in their respective home states, road crew, recording personnel, tour support (cartage, fuel, airfare, rentals, buss lease) to record and tour for one year. This is why you need a label that can front the money. This kind of money for a band like Petra is out there. It may not be Christian money, but it is still God's money. Downloads aren't going to cover it alone.

Re: free work. Free work is what todays artists need you to do for them to succeed. Social networking is free work. Street teams are free work. Any grass roots marketing solicited or hoped for by the band is free work. Again, the artists cannot figure out how to reach people for no money, so they are relying on word of mouth via free work.

Re: CD prices. Album prices have not kept up with inflation. Just what is a fair price for the right to listen to something forever? That is what you are paying for, A LICENSE to USE privately, not to own the music itself. I look at it like this. If someone wants a quality product, then the quality product should command a quality price. Music is like any other PRODUCT. But now, there is no way to get a quality product via MP3, and that bothers me. There are indie bands selling CDs for full pop and people gladly pay it, because of it's value to them. They also pay hundreds of dollars for concert tickets and travel hundreds of miles to see shows, because the bands play only a dozen shows in the USA each year. The bands produce hi-res CDs, DVD-As, books, DVDs, etc. There is a whole music industry in a bubble, and THAT is how one services now, not doing what the bottom feeders do.

You are looking at this upside down, based on your economy and not the economy it took to make the music and create the tour. You have no money, so you are imposing you economy upon the artist. That is just twisted. If you do not have the means to buy what you want, that is not the problem of the artist. Music is not a necessity anyway. Live within YOUR means and let the artist live within theirs. Again, downloads are not paying the artists, which is why so many have held out for so long, and why some (AC/DC) still refuse. Once you are there, you cannot recover. I don't care how much money consumers want to pay, because consumers mostly steal. They want to pay nothing. There was an idiot on here posting links to Petra and other CCM bands files...for free. He even gave away my music. Entertainment is a right now? Please. That was his thought. If the artist wants to discount or give it away, then it is their legal right to do so.

Don't get me wrong, Kickstart is cool, but it is not new. It is not the answer for longevity. The best indie bands are those that were signed and had a huge kick start called a record label. There are very few artists getting big sales, unless they are on a TV show, or had a following built by a label and other support services.

[Preacherman777]

This is an interesting discussion. I've done a lot of thinking about this sort of stuff where it comes to Classic Petra. On the one hand, independent effort made Classic Petra and the first album and DVD happen in the first place, but the scale of the goals were obviously never realized. So now, they are apparently working with a label and we don't hear anything and we have no real idea of what's going on, but it's been reported on the Classic Petra Fan Board that Bob has said that things are moving ahead. So I have to wonder if the end result will be better for them, even though now we seem to be sitting in limbo. I liked the constrant communication that existed while they were indi, but will working with a label again leave them better off in the long run? I don't know, but it will be interesting to see.

[executioner]

I think Brent's got it right. I also think it was right for Classic Petra to start out like they did as an indie, but its time for a label. They really need a label that is willing to market the right crowd; they shouldn't focus on the 18-49 crowd or on radio. They need to think out of box and use all the resources out there(most are free). Mags and print ads are not worth the time. Market on local sites like tv and newspaper sites especially if coming in for a show. I put an ad up on a local tv station site for $280 and it paid for itself in the first day and a John Mayer ad rotating right behind mine promoting new music.
What I'm saying is this is a new day and time for marketing and labels, artists, and managers have to think like it or they will get left behind and not suceed.

[brent]

TV still has the best concentration of potential buyers. Classic Petra should be marketed on secular channels that Christians watch. I know a thing or two about this, having been involved with Christian broadcasting to the secular audience. Oprah and Dr Phil used were THE choices to advertise around if we wanted to hit the Christian female. Conservative news and sports channel(s) were the best for Christian men.

[sue d.]

There was an idiot on here posting links to Petra and other CCM bands files...for free

Seems like Classic Petra itself is uploading their music so you can listen for free:

http://soundcloud.com/dpulse/sets/class ... ck/s-u6AD8

I'm guessing that you could download it as well, if you have the right program. Granted, the quality will not be good, but it seems a lot of people don't really care about quality any more. They care about FREE.

[brent]

Actually, you can download the hi-res file, the wav, that would be on the CD, without degradation, if the source is on the web. Nothing is safe, especially if it uses Flash player. I use Soundcloud. I gave up fighting. People can listen for free, not pay for a disc or a download and nobody makes a dime. Real smart. There is a good reason why successful artists refuse to put music on those sites, or have it on the web at all. ROBBERY!

[sue d.]

So why ARE these songs on sites like this? WHY?

[bakersfieldpethead]

I think one of the mistakes we as fans always make, especially those of us that are also in the music business on any level, is the mistake of thinking that a Band such as Petra who is on the verge of turning 40 years in the business themselves somehow hasn’t thought of these types of things.

We want to say Bob is a smart business man and all that, and then we see something that another artist is doing and say "ohhhh Bob needs to copy what they are doing" Not saying that is what you are saying, however in a round about way that IS just what we are saying. We're all guilty of it.

These are all good ideas, but those of us who pray need to pray that God will guide Bob to do what Petra needs to do to achieve whatever goal that God is asking of them this time. Remember, they felt that God wasn’t through with them so they reunited. We all love Petra, but there is a big reason why they are doing what they are doing and I believe that Bob will not move away from that road they are supposed to be on.

[brent]

Sue, the smart sites like iTunes only play a snippet of the tunes. The sites that play the whole tunes/albums are basically giving it away. When CDs are pressed, or files are sent to some of the big sites via third party services, the songs are automatically submitted to all of the paying sites, under the third party's label license. This is part of the appeal. The marketing to the un-heard musician says, "You must be everywhere. It is not important how much you make, but that everyone hears you." That is fine, but the problem is, nobody is going to pay for what they can get for free and people still have to know to look for you. You must be found by accident, and that is where YouTube is great. Tags help bands would not have been exposed, get exposed, when unsuspecting viewers type in other, more known, band names, genres, titles, etc. It works the same way Google sprawl does. Anyway, some kids with nothing to do but be total A-wipes come up with ways to steal audio and video. There are tons of freeware and shareware applications out there, allowing the data to be captured as it is played on your computer. So, it is completely invasive. It is not intercepting the data before it gets to your address. It is simply making an illegal copy of what you are doing. These types of programs are on your computer now, watching what you do, and reporting it to Apple, MicroSoft, the retailers you visit, etc. It will never be fixed, until we get back to a medium that cannot be copied. There will always be some hacker breaking the watermarks and such that protect the artist's work.

Yes, people put their stuff out their. Maybe they think God will cover them. Maybe he will. All I know is, the industry has not recovered from Napster. Like one of the co-founders of Facebook said, Napster did not fix the industry or make it better, it just made music free, and nobody can pay their bills making no money.

Classic Petra's tunes...that's their thing. If they want to give it away, thinking God will pay for them to live, then that is on them. More power to 'em. But it is not good business. The secular bands that have tried to generate business the free way failed and have since re-signed to a label or quit. The people claiming to have "broken free" of their labels, to have indie freedom are lairs. They sucked anyway, and were losing their deals, because they are no longer viable. Plain and simple. If you cannot find someone to fund you, then you are likely not viable to the masses, and you will have to do it on your own. The exceptions would be those winning on TV. There are some indies selling 500k units, but they don't get all of the money.

Bob will tell you, like he has told me, that he does not know what it takes to make it in the business, or be on the radio. He just does what he does and if it catches fire, it does.