Faith & Freedom ...the other side

[executioner]

I'm just hoping the true conservatives and the Tea Party people are on board; I know of a few church members that are seriously looking at other options and if enough of them go that way this will give the election to Obama.

[gman]

I'm just hoping the true conservatives and the Tea Party people are on board; I know of a few church members that are seriously looking at other options and if enough of them go that way this will give the election to Obama.

I was listening to the radio, and Beck was on pushing his big Restoring Love event in Dallas in a few weeks. He was also promoting other events that are also happening that week that he's taking part in. There's a big Tea Party event at the American Airlines arena. Also, James Robison is putting on an event that will feature prominent Christian leaders, Pastors, Priests, Rabbis, etc. He mentioned Franklin Graham, Ravi Zacharias, and Hagee, among others. I believe the theme is similar to Beck's event; along the lines of living out your faith, and restoring America in the way the founders envisioned. I mention that to say that there seems to a large segment of religious leaders from varying faiths who say, now is the time. We don't have to agree on theology or endorse each others faith, but we can stand united on one thing. President Obama and his little blue book, his rules for radicals, his dreams from my father, his communist friends in the White House, Cass Sunstein and Van Jones nudge, and his cloak and dagger chicago crime style politics must go.

I want to say something else, but I'll heed the wisdom from Proverbs and tame the tongue.

I can't wait for the debates because I really think the President is going to serve himself up on a silver platter. We're already seeing examples all over the media where they are no longer covering for him.

[executioner]

I'm just hoping the true conservatives and the Tea Party people are on board; I know of a few church members that are seriously looking at other options and if enough of them go that way this will give the election to Obama.

I was listening to the radio, and Beck was on pushing his big Restoring Love event in Dallas in a few weeks. He was also promoting other events that are also happening that week that he's taking part in. There's a big Tea Party event at the American Airlines arena. Also, James Robison is putting on an event that will feature prominent Christian leaders, Pastors, Priests, Rabbis, etc. He mentioned Franklin Graham, Ravi Zacharias, and Hagee, among others. I believe the theme is similar to Beck's event; along the lines of living out your faith, and restoring America in the way the founders envisioned. I mention that to say that there seems to a large segment of religious leaders from varying faiths who say, now is the time. We don't have to agree on theology or endorse each others faith, but we can stand united on one thing. President Obama and his little blue book, his rules for radicals, his dreams from my father, his communist friends in the White House, Cass Sunstein and Van Jones nudge, and his cloak and dagger chicago crime style politics must go.

I want to say something else, but I'll heed the wisdom from Proverbs and tame the tongue.

I can't wait for the debates because I really think the President is going to serve himself up on a silver platter. We're already seeing examples all over the media where they are no longer covering for him.

A couple years back I thought Beck was really off his rocker with some things he was bringing up, but he looks really smart right now. The Jews are very important with this election; they voted strongly for Obama in 08, but it looks like they will go the other way this time around. I'm also eagerly waiting for the debates especially since Newt is on board; I saw somewhere where Newt & Mitt are doing practice runs on the debates which only can help Mitt.

[brent]

I think the lower class in America still has the free choice to work really hard, multiple jobs if necessary, and get out of the lower class. People still do it. The problem is that they have the Gov't their giving them lots of handouts, telling them they can't do any better, and making it easier for them to stay in the lower class. Then they hold them hostage come election time, by telling them not to vote for candidate X because he or she wants to take away the freebies. I feel the Gov't needs to be phased out of the welfare business because for the most part it lacks any morality, and is full of corruption. It's also a huge conflict of interest.

There are tooooooo many illegal and legal immigrants coming to this country with not a pot to whiz in, and becoming successful business people. If you can't make it here, you suck and it's your fault.

[brent]

I see the spirit of mccarthyism is alive and well. It's like if Obama wins a second term, a giant wall will go up along the borders of the US. Wait, isn't that what some US conservatives have been asking for, I mean with all these illegals coming in and stealing jobs?

No. Obama is not for a wall of any sort. He has supported more Muslim nations and organizations than any president in history. He has whizzed on some of our allies. He and the democratic party welcome illegals, want them to vote (illegally), have free food, free education, free health care. We can't afford that. No nation doing that is affording it. The republicans are riding that wire. They do not know how to fix the problem, because the problem,m has been allowed to persist for so long.

As for the illegals taking the jobs of Americans. I see this happening, mainly in construction around here. What is spooky is that the illegals operate without permits, proper certification, heavy machinery or driver's licenses, etc. I have personally been on a church construction site when immigration was called by the inspector and the crew was hauled off. The church hired someone with no credentials, and it showed. All of the plumbing, stairs, on-center distances for beams/studs, etc was wrong. The place was close to being condemned. This may not be the norm...well, I hope it isn't. But, since times are tough, and people are penny pinching while waiting for the hyper inflation to hit, I suspect it will be.

The bulk of the honest working illegal jobs are not jobs I would be concerned with. I know a McDonalds franchise that employs them. We used to watch an employees daughter before school. These are jobs that don't care about education or the ability to speak English. So, if an American is crying over an uneducated, Spanish speaking illegal taking his/her job, they had a bad job to start with, and they need to improve their skill set and move up the food chain.

[executioner]

I think the lower class in America still has the free choice to work really hard, multiple jobs if necessary, and get out of the lower class. People still do it. The problem is that they have the Gov't their giving them lots of handouts, telling them they can't do any better, and making it easier for them to stay in the lower class. Then they hold them hostage come election time, by telling them not to vote for candidate X because he or she wants to take away the freebies. I feel the Gov't needs to be phased out of the welfare business because for the most part it lacks any morality, and is full of corruption. It's also a huge conflict of interest.

There are tooooooo many illegal and legal immigrants coming to this country with not a pot to whiz in, and becoming successful business people. If you can't make it here, you suck and it's your fault.

AMEN!!!

[rexreed]

Illegal immigration is actually lower now than when the President took office. The 30 years leading up to now is where the illegal immigration explosion took place. Plenty of leaders could have done something about it but no one did.

[Petrafan327]

The line "Jesus being a white middle class republican" in that song is in the context of one of the two greatest lies ever told.

I don't think all Christians in the states put the flag around the cross ... just those that think republican is the only choice for a Christian.

I don't see how anyone who is a true Christian could live with themselves if they were a Democrat--they (Democrats) support abortion (killing unborn babies) and gay marriage (both are completely against the Bible), and most of them are complete liars.

Not saying Republicans are perfect, but they are a heck of a lot better than the Demoncrats.

[Petrafan327]

No. Obama is not for a wall of any sort. He has supported more Muslim nations and organizations than any president in history. He has whizzed on some of our allies. He and the democratic party welcome illegals, want them to vote (illegally), have free food, free education, free health care. We can't afford that. No nation doing that is affording it. The republicans are riding that wire. They do not know how to fix the problem, because the problem has been allowed to persist for so long.

As for the illegals taking the jobs of Americans. I see this happening, mainly in construction around here. What is spooky is that the illegals operate without permits, proper certification, heavy machinery or driver's licenses, etc. I have personally been on a church construction site when immigration was called by the inspector and the crew was hauled off. The church hired someone with no credentials, and it showed. All of the plumbing, stairs, on-center distances for beams/studs, etc was wrong. The place was close to being condemned. This may not be the norm...well, I hope it isn't. But, since times are tough, and people are penny pinching while waiting for the hyper inflation to hit, I suspect it will be.

The bulk of the honest working illegal jobs are not jobs I would be concerned with. I know a McDonalds franchise that employs them. We used to watch an employees daughter before school. These are jobs that don't care about education or the ability to speak English. So, if an American is crying over an uneducated, Spanish speaking illegal taking his/her job, they had a bad job to start with, and they need to improve their skill set and move up the food chain.

Obama supports Muslim nations because he is Muslim. He admitted it on live TV:

[gman]

I don't know how any Christian could support the republican party because they stand opposed to any care for the poor and destruction of the environment. Two issues that are major themes in Scripture.

Oh please. The collective back of the liberals ought to be broken to bits by now because they've been shoveling that pile of dung for so long.
Disagreeing with the liberal way of addressing a particular issue automatically means you hate whatever it is they are addressing. Immigrants, seniors, healthcare, children, etc. That's one of the problems in America. Too many people believe that nonsense. I believe Beck is right when he says that the President is campaigning hard for the dummy vote.

[gman]

So, the president did bailouts, tarp, stimulus, lowered tax rates, and ultimately did not stop Gov't run lenders who made home loans to people who couldn't afford them and allowed politicians to pressure regular banks to do the same. I'm sure there is more. That was President Bush. All these guys are still running around saying that we can't go back to the failed policies that got us here. I just mentioned those policies, and we're still living them under the President Obama. Bush took the deficit up to 10 trillion; something like that. Obama has taken it to 16 trillion, and it's projected to be 21 trillion if he is reelected. He oversaw that downgrade of our nation's credit rating. Reported unemployment is still over 8%, and gas is up to $4 a gallon. Where are we going?
I just had a major revelation. Obama wants insurance companies to cover contraception because inflation is going to push the price of condoms to $10 a piece. Bathroom dispensers will have to include a credit card swipe.

[knotodiswrld]

I don't know how any Christian could support the republican party because they stand opposed to any care for the poor and destruction of the environment. Two issues that are major themes in Scripture.

Actually, I'm sure you well know, it is the Democrats who stand opposed to any care for the poor. In fact, their platform, as far as I can tell, seeks to outlaw caring for the poor entirely.

Like everything else, they seem to think it should be the government's responsibility to care for the poor. They want to keep individuals or the church from doing it. This is reprehensible.

Republicans, on the other hand, want to move the care of the poor from the abomination of allowing the government to do it, to the Christ-ordained role of the church and/or individuals doing it.

Yes, Matthew, for years I tried to convince myself that it really was possible to be a Christian and a Liberal at the same time. But I have recently realized that the two are simply incompatible. I realize a person might be both, but only through ignorance of Christ's commands. If one truly understands what Christ commanded, one must see that the government caring for the poor is a grave abomination.

It is just as evil, and just as effective, for the government to care for the poor as it would be for the Church to patrol the streets with guns attempting to maintain order.

By advocating that the government care for the poor, you are abdicating Christ's command to do so yourself. It is not now, nor can it ever be, the government's job to care for the poor. That is the command Christ gave to you and to His Church!!! By letting the government do it, you are in direct disobedience to Christ. You are no less an unrepentant sinner than is a habitual adulterer.

You've praised Petra before for their songs about caring for the poor. Songs such such as the haunting "Hollow Eyes" and the sorrowful "Homeless Few". All Christians agree with the message of those songs. But then you hold the completely incompatible position that the state should be doing the very job that Petra, and more importantly Christ, says the church should be doing.

You may ask, "But what if the Church doesn't do it's job?" Do two wrongs make a right? Even if the Church didn't do it's job, it would not thereby make it permissible to allow the state to do the Church's job.

I have come to realize that Liberalism and Christianity are inherently incompatible. Only through ignorance of one or the other can a person be both. It is in direct disobedience to Christ's very command to care for the poor to foist that responsibility on the the shoulders of the state. While I don't believe that any government in the history of the world has ever been able to effectively care for the poor, nor do I believe it would ever be possible for any government to do so, my position would not change even if our government could do the job perfectly. The fact is, Christ told His Church to do it. Allowing the state to do it is, frankly, sin.

Would you want the state to perform Baptisms? Would you want the state administering Communion? Would you want the state teaching spiritual truth? Then what possible reason could you have for thinking it would be okay for the state to usurp the Church's job of caring for the poor?

The state's job is clearly outlined in Romans 13. The state's job is to use force to maintain order. Nothing more. The desire to have the state take care of the poor is in direct opposition to the message of Scripture and the Words of Christ.

It is the government's job to keep us from murdering each other (i.e. abortion). It is NOT the government's job to take care of the poor. So, no. I don't see how an educated, informed Christian can be an educated, informed Liberal.

[executioner]

I don't know how any Christian could support the republican party because they stand opposed to any care for the poor and destruction of the environment. Two issues that are major themes in Scripture.

Actually, I'm sure you well know, it is the Democrats who stand opposed to any care for the poor. In fact, their platform, as far as I can tell, seeks to outlaw caring for the poor entirely.

Like everything else, they seem to think it should be the government's responsibility to care for the poor. They want to keep individuals or the church from doing it. This is reprehensible.

Republicans, on the other hand, want to move the care of the poor from the abomination of allowing the government to do it, to the Christ-ordained role of the church and/or individuals doing it.

Yes, Matthew, for years I tried to convince myself that it really was possible to be a Christian and a Liberal at the same time. But I have recently realized that the two are simply incompatible. I realize a person might be both, but only through ignorance of Christ's commands. If one truly understands what Christ commanded, one must see that the government caring for the poor is a grave abomination.

It is just as evil, and just as effective, for the government to care for the poor as it would be for the Church to patrol the streets with guns attempting to maintain order.

By advocating that the government care for the poor, you are abdicating Christ's command to do so yourself. It is not now, nor can it ever be, the government's job to care for the poor. That is the command Christ gave to you and to His Church!!! By letting the government do it, you are in direct disobedience to Christ. You are no less an unrepentant sinner than is a habitual adulterer.

You've praised Petra before for their songs about caring for the poor. Songs such such as the haunting "Hollow Eyes" and the sorrowful "Homeless Few". All Christians agree with the message of those songs. But then you hold the completely incompatible position that the state should be doing the very job that Petra, and more importantly Christ, says the church should be doing.

You may ask, "But what if the Church doesn't do it's job?" Do two wrongs make a right? Even if the Church didn't do it's job, it would not thereby make it permissible to allow the state to do the Church's job.

I have come to realize that Liberalism and Christianity are inherently incompatible. Only through ignorance of one or the other can a person be both. It is in direct disobedience to Christ's very command to care for the poor to foist that responsibility on the the shoulders of the state. While I don't believe that any government in the history of the world has ever been able to effectively care for the poor, nor do I believe it would ever be possible for any government to do so, my position would not change even if our government could do the job perfectly. The fact is, Christ told His Church to do it. Allowing the state to do it is, frankly, sin.

Would you want the state to perform Baptisms? Would you want the state administering Communion? Would you want the state teaching spiritual truth? Then what possible reason could you have for thinking it would be okay for the state to usurp the Church's job of caring for the poor?

The state's job is clearly outlined in Romans 13. The state's job is to use force to maintain order. Nothing more. The desire to have the state take care of the poor is in direct opposition to the message of Scripture and the Words of Christ.

It is the government's job to keep us from murdering each other (i.e. abortion). It is NOT the government's job to take care of the poor. So, no. I don't see how an educated, informed Christian can be an educated, informed Liberal.

This is so true; I've never looked it at this way, and if THE CHURCH would step up then the government would not even have an excuse to get involved with supporting the poor, but I'm not even sure that would stop a Democrat from trying to get involved with our tax payer money.

35% of all Welfare users have been in the system 5+ years and now they are saying about 8% have been receiving it for 20+ years(welfare was designed and still is by law suppose to be used for short term guidance) Being renewed every 6 months for one straight year; After your year is completed (by today's law) you are not eligible for assistance for another 125 weeks(18 months).
27% of all receiving unemployment have been on it for 125+ straight weeks(law states you can only receive it for 99 straight weeks)

All I heard this week from the DNC is government, government, government and how it will require you to depend on it for the future.

[gman]

See, I'm still convinced that the church and Christians do help the actual poor. and we see plenty of examples of the Gov't trying to shut that down. I believe progressive Gov't has redefined poor and helped create a another class of people who are perfectly capable of making it on their own, but instead they rely on a Gov't that is all too happy to keep meeting their needs. In exchange for their vote of course.

[Petrafan327]

So how can government be Christian, or Christians be in govt, if they won't do what Christians are supposed to do?

Our American government was founded on the principles laid down by God in the Bible, but our Founding Fathers intended to keep our government small to avoid what is now happening in our country. Small government = prosperity (conservatism). Big government = poverty (liberalism also known as socialism or Communism). Socialism is exactly what the Democrats are aiming for; we cannot allow them to do that.

And how can Christians be in government? Sir, I don't believe you fully grasp the definition of a godly governing system. A good government has God as the head over everything, because He is Sovereign, then the human leaders are next (the President, senators, governors, congress, etc.). But this can only succeed if the people in the government are Christian; and because most of our current government, including our President are not Christian, this system has degraded and our country is suffering.

Only when we come back to God and repent will we be fully restored as the great nation we once were.