CT: Trump Should Be Removed from Office

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Re: CT: Trump Should Be Removed from Office

Post by Mountain Man » Sat Dec 28, 2019 11:55 am

brent wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 2:16 am
It's the 7,000-year "doctrine" taught by the first-century church, known and repeated by secular and Christian historians. Basically, the ascension begins the first day (thousand years). God completes his work at the end of the 6,000 years (6th day) and rests on the 7th (Millenial reign). To me, it is the only thing that makes sense.
I lean more towards the partial preterist view that much of the "end times" prophecy was fulfilled around 70AD during the destruction of Jerusalem, including its temple, which would have been regarded as a cataclysmic event at the time, and that the only event remaining is the final resurrection and judgment.

Rather than getting way off tangent here, I will simply refer people to the following which contains a number of essays explaining and defending partial/orthodox preterism.

http://www.tektonics.org/eschhub.html

While it's an interesting topic for debate, I think the only thing that really matters is to live every moment with the expectation that before your next breath, you could be standing before God to give an account of your actions. As Jesus said in Matthew 24:

"Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom his master has set over his household, to give them their food at the proper time? Blessed is that servant whom his master will find so doing when he comes. Truly, I say to you, he will set him over all his possessions. But if that wicked servant says to himself, ‘My master is delayed,’ and begins to beat his fellow servants and eats and drinks with drunkards, the master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know and will cut him in pieces and put him with the hypocrites. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."
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Re: CT: Trump Should Be Removed from Office

Post by Diehardpetrafan:) » Sat Dec 28, 2019 1:37 pm

Mountain Man wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 11:55 am
brent wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 2:16 am
It's the 7,000-year "doctrine" taught by the first-century church, known and repeated by secular and Christian historians. Basically, the ascension begins the first day (thousand years). God completes his work at the end of the 6,000 years (6th day) and rests on the 7th (Millenial reign). To me, it is the only thing that makes sense.
I lean more towards the partial preterist view that much of the "end times" prophecy was fulfilled around 70AD during the destruction of Jerusalem, including its temple, which would have been regarded as a cataclysmic event at the time, and that the only event remaining is the final resurrection and judgment.

Rather than getting way off tangent here, I will simply refer people to the following which contains a number of essays explaining and defending partial/orthodox preterism.

http://www.tektonics.org/eschhub.html

While it's an interesting topic for debate, I think the only thing that really matters is to live every moment with the expectation that before your next breath, you could be standing before God to give an account of your actions. As Jesus said in Matthew 24:

"Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom his master has set over his household, to give them their food at the proper time? Blessed is that servant whom his master will find so doing when he comes. Truly, I say to you, he will set him over all his possessions. But if that wicked servant says to himself, ‘My master is delayed,’ and begins to beat his fellow servants and eats and drinks with drunkards, the master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know and will cut him in pieces and put him with the hypocrites. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."
I like that answer!
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Re: CT: Trump Should Be Removed from Office

Post by brent » Sat Dec 28, 2019 1:37 pm

I used to call and bust Hank H's chops on the Bible Answerman broadcasts. He was a preterist. The problem with it is they mistranslate some words in scripture to make their point of view work, change the time period Revelation was written (according to Polycarp and others) and NONE of the events written in Revelation happened by 70 AD.
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Re: CT: Trump Should Be Removed from Office

Post by Diehardpetrafan:) » Sat Dec 28, 2019 1:38 pm

brent wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 1:37 pm
I used to call and bust Hank H's chops on the Bible Answerman broadcasts. He was a preterist. The problem with it is they mistranslate some words in scripture to make their point of view work, change the time period Revelation was written (according to Polycarp and others) and NONE of the events written in Revelation happened by 70 AD.
Well in the start of Revelation, it says something about it being sent to John as signs, not literally.
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Re: CT: Trump Should Be Removed from Office

Post by Mountain Man » Sat Dec 28, 2019 1:48 pm

brent wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 1:37 pm
I used to call and bust Hank H's chops on the Bible Answerman broadcasts. He was a preterist. The problem with it is they mistranslate some words in scripture to make their point of view work, change the time period Revelation was written (according to Polycarp and others) and NONE of the events written in Revelation happened by 70 AD.
I find that most people who argue against the partial preterist view don't entirely understand it. There is no mistranslation or playing fast and loose with the dates, and it makes better sense of Jesus saying that "this generation will not pass away until all these things take place" and John writing in Revelation that it was a prophecy of "things that must soon take place".

But I don't think it really matters in the end whether millennialism or preterism is the correct eschatology because it makes no difference in how believers are commanded to live day to day.
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Re: CT: Trump Should Be Removed from Office

Post by brent » Sat Dec 28, 2019 3:14 pm

Diehardpetrafan:) wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 1:38 pm
brent wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 1:37 pm
I used to call and bust Hank H's chops on the Bible Answerman broadcasts. He was a preterist. The problem with it is they mistranslate some words in scripture to make their point of view work, change the time period Revelation was written (according to Polycarp and others) and NONE of the events written in Revelation happened by 70 AD.
Well in the start of Revelation, it says something about it being sent to John as signs, not literally.
Well, the church is gone after the fourth chapter, so, that is a big problem.
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Re: CT: Trump Should Be Removed from Office

Post by Diehardpetrafan:) » Sat Dec 28, 2019 5:15 pm

What do you mean?
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Re: CT: Trump Should Be Removed from Office

Post by brent » Sun Dec 29, 2019 11:46 am

I mean the church is not mentioned after Chapter 4. There is a chronology to the whole letter. Now, not all of us agree about specifically where the church is removed (pre-trib, mid-trib, post-trib), but there IS a chronology to the letter. Yes it has symbolism, nobody is disputing that. The fact that the church is no longer mentioned means the events do not affect the church. If those events are indeed happening now as many believe, people have some 'splainin' to do. We still be here, yo.
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Re: CT: Trump Should Be Removed from Office

Post by Diehardpetrafan:) » Sun Dec 29, 2019 1:09 pm

Did I say those things were happening now? (Don't get me wrong in that sentence that sounded sarcastic/rude it wasn't meant that way) I'm a little bit confused right now. I understand what you mean, Brent, and I think I kind of 'side' with both of you. Soo, I get what you mean about the church, but, wouldn't it make sense if a lot of stuff went wrong? I mean, maybe it won't, maybe it will all go wrong, I guess both makes sense sort of. Like I said, I'm confused as to this whole 'end time' stuff. All I know is Jesus is coming, and he could come whenever, and I don't know or worry about if there's gonna be horrible things (like grasshoppers with human faces) or whatever, because I know where I'll end up.

Again, I'm confused about it all. Especially since I don't really know all the dates and stuff intelligent people do, so I'm not the best at making points that go together- although, yes, there is chronology to Revelation.
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Re: CT: Trump Should Be Removed from Office

Post by curt » Wed Jan 01, 2020 7:38 am

brent wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 1:49 am
Heck, name a world leader that doesn't change his mind, contradict him/herself, lie, etc. THEY ARE POLITICIANS. LYING IS THEIR NATURE. ALL of them lie to manipulate people and situations, for the good or bad. I think he is pretty smart in some things and downright stupid in others. But you know? He is working for free. He is more or less a self-made billionaire. He HAS to be good at walking away from relationships that go south and buttsmooch those he needs, whether he likes them or not. This is what is required to play nice in the world. We are talking about leading a nation, not a church. He has to do dirty deeds so the country's interests are protected. You can't be a Jesus follower and be in bed with all of these evil people, even your own party, and make everyone happy. You have to be some kind of mentally ill, unstable, professional con-man/woman.
If this is how you push for higher standards don't be surprised when things go wrong.
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Re: CT: Trump Should Be Removed from Office

Post by Dan » Wed Jan 01, 2020 11:27 am

curt wrote:
Wed Jan 01, 2020 7:38 am
brent wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 1:49 am
Heck, name a world leader that doesn't change his mind, contradict him/herself, lie, etc. THEY ARE POLITICIANS. LYING IS THEIR NATURE. ALL of them lie to manipulate people and situations, for the good or bad. I think he is pretty smart in some things and downright stupid in others. But you know? He is working for free. He is more or less a self-made billionaire. He HAS to be good at walking away from relationships that go south and buttsmooch those he needs, whether he likes them or not. This is what is required to play nice in the world. We are talking about leading a nation, not a church. He has to do dirty deeds so the country's interests are protected. You can't be a Jesus follower and be in bed with all of these evil people, even your own party, and make everyone happy. You have to be some kind of mentally ill, unstable, professional con-man/woman.
If this is how you push for higher standards don't be surprised when things go wrong.
Yes Brent, you end up with a terrorist infested country like Denmark with these standards.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/ ... ss-denmark
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