Guitarist Discussion

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brent
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Re: Guitarist Discussion

Post by brent » Fri May 08, 2020 6:47 am

curt wrote:
Sun Mar 29, 2020 6:55 am
Mountain Man wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:59 am
Another great Angus quote when asked what it was like to be one of the best guitarists in the world:

"I'm not even the best guitarist in AC/DC."
I would agree with him on that. I really like his playing and while admitting that it is a lot harder to play his stuff than you would initially think in my opinion there is too much "one trick horse" to his playing to really place him among the best guitarists in the world. You can be a truly great guitar player without being one of the best in the world. I would leave that space for others. But when it all comes down that is personal opinion to a very large extent.
Jimmy Page is overrated too. Sloppy and brash tone.
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Re: Guitarist Discussion

Post by executioner » Fri May 08, 2020 9:30 pm

brent wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 6:47 am
curt wrote:
Sun Mar 29, 2020 6:55 am
Mountain Man wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:59 am
Another great Angus quote when asked what it was like to be one of the best guitarists in the world:

"I'm not even the best guitarist in AC/DC."
I would agree with him on that. I really like his playing and while admitting that it is a lot harder to play his stuff than you would initially think in my opinion there is too much "one trick horse" to his playing to really place him among the best guitarists in the world. You can be a truly great guitar player without being one of the best in the world. I would leave that space for others. But when it all comes down that is personal opinion to a very large extent.
Jimmy Page is overrated too. Sloppy and brash tone.
I agree on the above; BTW the most overrated guitar players are the 2 most famous Lennon & McCartney
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brent
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Re: Guitarist Discussion

Post by brent » Sat May 09, 2020 9:52 am

It just goes to show that the sum is much greater than the individuals and good songs trump everything.
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Re: Guitarist Discussion

Post by Mountain Man » Sat May 09, 2020 12:34 pm

brent wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 6:44 am
Mountain Man wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 5:00 pm
(a huge chunk of change for a high school kid working part-time at Kentucky Fried Chicken!).
What is the grossest thing you witnessed at KFC?
I watched a dude straight up sneeze into the flour as he was breading a batch of chicken. I actually saw a glob of phlegm shoot out of his mouth and into the flour mixture. And, no, he didn't discard the batch or clean the work station. He just kept on going.

Another time I saw a guy drop an entire tray of cooked chicken onto the filthy kitchen floor. He picked it up, dipped it in the fryer for a few seconds to "sterilize" it, and then put it in the warming rack to be served to customers.

I'm sure I witnessed a whole bunch of other health violations, but those are the two I distinctly remember.
Last edited by Mountain Man on Sat May 09, 2020 12:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Guitarist Discussion

Post by Mountain Man » Sat May 09, 2020 12:48 pm

executioner wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 9:30 pm
brent wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 6:47 am
curt wrote:
Sun Mar 29, 2020 6:55 am
Mountain Man wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:59 am
Another great Angus quote when asked what it was like to be one of the best guitarists in the world:

"I'm not even the best guitarist in AC/DC."
I would agree with him on that. I really like his playing and while admitting that it is a lot harder to play his stuff than you would initially think in my opinion there is too much "one trick horse" to his playing to really place him among the best guitarists in the world. You can be a truly great guitar player without being one of the best in the world. I would leave that space for others. But when it all comes down that is personal opinion to a very large extent.
Jimmy Page is overrated too. Sloppy and brash tone.
I agree on the above; BTW the most overrated guitar players are the 2 most famous Lennon & McCartney
Were Lennon and McCartney ever highly rated as guitar players? I always thought they were best known for their song writing and musical creativity and were only ever regarded as serviceable guitarists. George Harrison was clearly the best guitar player in the Beatles, but I wouldn't even rank him as among the best.
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Re: Guitarist Discussion

Post by curt » Sat May 09, 2020 1:30 pm

brent wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 6:47 am
curt wrote:
Sun Mar 29, 2020 6:55 am
Mountain Man wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:59 am
Another great Angus quote when asked what it was like to be one of the best guitarists in the world:

"I'm not even the best guitarist in AC/DC."
I would agree with him on that. I really like his playing and while admitting that it is a lot harder to play his stuff than you would initially think in my opinion there is too much "one trick horse" to his playing to really place him among the best guitarists in the world. You can be a truly great guitar player without being one of the best in the world. I would leave that space for others. But when it all comes down that is personal opinion to a very large extent.
Jimmy Page is overrated too. Sloppy and brash tone.
I completely agree. I have never held him in high regard.
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Re: Guitarist Discussion

Post by curt » Sat May 09, 2020 1:37 pm

Mountain Man wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 12:48 pm
executioner wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 9:30 pm
brent wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 6:47 am
curt wrote:
Sun Mar 29, 2020 6:55 am
Mountain Man wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:59 am
Another great Angus quote when asked what it was like to be one of the best guitarists in the world:

"I'm not even the best guitarist in AC/DC."
I would agree with him on that. I really like his playing and while admitting that it is a lot harder to play his stuff than you would initially think in my opinion there is too much "one trick horse" to his playing to really place him among the best guitarists in the world. You can be a truly great guitar player without being one of the best in the world. I would leave that space for others. But when it all comes down that is personal opinion to a very large extent.
Jimmy Page is overrated too. Sloppy and brash tone.
I agree on the above; BTW the most overrated guitar players are the 2 most famous Lennon & McCartney
Were Lennon and McCartney ever highly rated as guitar players? I always thought they were best known for their song writing and musical creativity and were only ever regarded as serviceable guitarists. George Harrison was clearly the best guitar player in the Beatles, but I wouldn't even rank him as among the best.
George Harrison is overrated too. On this Rolling Stone list he is placed as number 11. So, allegedly, he is better than David Gilmour (!), Mark knopfler (!), Brian May, The Edge and quite many others.

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/musi ... -2-150034/
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Re: Guitarist Discussion

Post by George Harrison » Sat May 09, 2020 3:02 pm

curt wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 1:37 pm
Mountain Man wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 12:48 pm
executioner wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 9:30 pm
brent wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 6:47 am
curt wrote:
Sun Mar 29, 2020 6:55 am
Mountain Man wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:59 am
Another great Angus quote when asked what it was like to be one of the best guitarists in the world:

"I'm not even the best guitarist in AC/DC."
I would agree with him on that. I really like his playing and while admitting that it is a lot harder to play his stuff than you would initially think in my opinion there is too much "one trick horse" to his playing to really place him among the best guitarists in the world. You can be a truly great guitar player without being one of the best in the world. I would leave that space for others. But when it all comes down that is personal opinion to a very large extent.
Jimmy Page is overrated too. Sloppy and brash tone.
I agree on the above; BTW the most overrated guitar players are the 2 most famous Lennon & McCartney
Were Lennon and McCartney ever highly rated as guitar players? I always thought they were best known for their song writing and musical creativity and were only ever regarded as serviceable guitarists. George Harrison was clearly the best guitar player in the Beatles, but I wouldn't even rank him as among the best.
George Harrison is overrated too. On this Rolling Stone list he is placed as number 11. So, allegedly, he is better than David Gilmour (!), Mark knopfler (!), Brian May, The Edge and quite many others.

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/musi ... -2-150034/
Agreed. Harrison wasn't bad but I don't think he was anywhere near great. Sure, he was a great musician and composer, but I think him being one of the Beatles caused people to hold his playing in too high regard. Meanwhile players like Knopfler, Brian May and Phil Keaggy are not appreciated quite enough.
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Re: Guitarist Discussion

Post by curt » Sat May 09, 2020 3:13 pm

I agree with you. Especially about Knopfler. Keaggy is a great guitar player. His style however does not really work for me but that is a personal thing.
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Re: Guitarist Discussion

Post by Mountain Man » Sat May 09, 2020 5:55 pm

curt wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 1:37 pm
Mountain Man wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 12:48 pm
executioner wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 9:30 pm
brent wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 6:47 am
curt wrote:
Sun Mar 29, 2020 6:55 am
Mountain Man wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:59 am
Another great Angus quote when asked what it was like to be one of the best guitarists in the world:

"I'm not even the best guitarist in AC/DC."
I would agree with him on that. I really like his playing and while admitting that it is a lot harder to play his stuff than you would initially think in my opinion there is too much "one trick horse" to his playing to really place him among the best guitarists in the world. You can be a truly great guitar player without being one of the best in the world. I would leave that space for others. But when it all comes down that is personal opinion to a very large extent.
Jimmy Page is overrated too. Sloppy and brash tone.
I agree on the above; BTW the most overrated guitar players are the 2 most famous Lennon & McCartney
Were Lennon and McCartney ever highly rated as guitar players? I always thought they were best known for their song writing and musical creativity and were only ever regarded as serviceable guitarists. George Harrison was clearly the best guitar player in the Beatles, but I wouldn't even rank him as among the best.
George Harrison is overrated too. On this Rolling Stone list he is placed as number 11. So, allegedly, he is better than David Gilmour (!), Mark knopfler (!), Brian May, The Edge and quite many others.

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/musi ... -2-150034/
I would personally place George Harrison ahead of Edge in terms of conventional skill. Edge's skill lies mainly in his ability to use effects in really interesting ways, but his playing technique is pretty basic. I don't know if I've ever heard him play a solo that had more than four notes.
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Re: Guitarist Discussion

Post by Mountain Man » Sat May 09, 2020 6:08 pm

curt wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 3:13 pm
Keaggy ... His style however does not really work for me but that is a personal thing.
What style? Keaggy's music is extremely diverse. It's one of the reasons he's never been a mainstay on any record label, because he would make a straight ahead rock n' roll album followed by an acoustic instrumental album, then a blues album, then Spanish guitar, then a psychedelic throwback, and so on -- and he excels at all of it. There's no single style of music you can point to as his signature sound. Labels don't like that. They want easily marketable consistency. Keaggy's philosophy has always been "There's life without a recording contract," because it has allowed him the freedom to do whatever he wants.
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Re: Guitarist Discussion

Post by curt » Sun May 10, 2020 3:04 am

Mountain Man wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 5:55 pm
curt wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 1:37 pm
Mountain Man wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 12:48 pm
executioner wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 9:30 pm
brent wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 6:47 am
curt wrote:
Sun Mar 29, 2020 6:55 am
Mountain Man wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:59 am
Another great Angus quote when asked what it was like to be one of the best guitarists in the world:

"I'm not even the best guitarist in AC/DC."
I would agree with him on that. I really like his playing and while admitting that it is a lot harder to play his stuff than you would initially think in my opinion there is too much "one trick horse" to his playing to really place him among the best guitarists in the world. You can be a truly great guitar player without being one of the best in the world. I would leave that space for others. But when it all comes down that is personal opinion to a very large extent.
Jimmy Page is overrated too. Sloppy and brash tone.
I agree on the above; BTW the most overrated guitar players are the 2 most famous Lennon & McCartney
Were Lennon and McCartney ever highly rated as guitar players? I always thought they were best known for their song writing and musical creativity and were only ever regarded as serviceable guitarists. George Harrison was clearly the best guitar player in the Beatles, but I wouldn't even rank him as among the best.
George Harrison is overrated too. On this Rolling Stone list he is placed as number 11. So, allegedly, he is better than David Gilmour (!), Mark knopfler (!), Brian May, The Edge and quite many others.

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/musi ... -2-150034/
I would personally place George Harrison ahead of Edge in terms of conventional skill. Edge's skill lies mainly in his ability to use effects in really interesting ways, but his playing technique is pretty basic. I don't know if I've ever heard him play a solo that had more than four notes.
I agree that what Edge does is driven by effect to a very large extent most of the time. And a great clean sound with echo and a few harmonic tones really does something magic. However, he has used it again and again and again and again and it has gotten really, really old. He has used it to the extent where I no longer care to listen to it any longer. But he managed to create his own universe of sounds and did something rather unique. Indeed, it has been taken to the level where entire songs would be hard to imagine being great if it was not for the drive and energy they get for Edge's combination of a particular style and effects. Where the streets have no name could be played without it. But I have a hard time imagining it would have the same energy without those repeated few figures.

Edge is one of the few who is instantly recognizable, his rhytm playing is not easy to follow (with or without effects) and he managed to make a diversity of sounds. Achtung Baby is quite another sound universe than the Joshua Tree to say the least.

His guitar solos often follow his rather ususal Edge pattern where in idea is repeated, quite a few times. He is not a great solo player in my opinion. However, if you have not heard a solo with more than four notes, you have either not listened a lot or not listened very carefully. Start at 1:10: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCj0FRoc2Uk

It is not that I think it is a very great solo. You can find a lot of examples on youtube and in some cases it seems he is slightly uncomfortable playing it.

The Edge is a guitarist who's main skills seems to be in his right hand, not his left (that is, of course, a simplification). I am not a huge fan of him at all and hardly ever listen, but credit where credit is due. He is very unique and he certainly did make his mark. I just wish he would have not keept on to the extent where it started to become a cliche.
Last edited by curt on Sun May 10, 2020 3:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Guitarist Discussion

Post by curt » Sun May 10, 2020 3:38 am

Mountain Man wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 6:08 pm
curt wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 3:13 pm
Keaggy ... His style however does not really work for me but that is a personal thing.
What style? Keaggy's music is extremely diverse. It's one of the reasons he's never been a mainstay on any record label, because he would make a straight ahead rock n' roll album followed by an acoustic instrumental album, then a blues album, then Spanish guitar, then a psychedelic throwback, and so on -- and he excels at all of it. There's no single style of music you can point to as his signature sound. Labels don't like that. They want easily marketable consistency. Keaggy's philosophy has always been "There's life without a recording contract," because it has allowed him the freedom to do whatever he wants.
I am afraid you are confusing genre of music with style of playing in the above. With most of the really great players, you can rather easily identify their style of playing even when the genre of music is changed. The same goes for Keaggy who is, indeed, a great player. It just really does not do anything for me personally. I have a hard time finding the words to describe why.
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Re: Guitarist Discussion

Post by executioner » Sun May 10, 2020 8:50 am

curt wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 3:38 am
Mountain Man wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 6:08 pm
curt wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 3:13 pm
Keaggy ... His style however does not really work for me but that is a personal thing.
What style? Keaggy's music is extremely diverse. It's one of the reasons he's never been a mainstay on any record label, because he would make a straight ahead rock n' roll album followed by an acoustic instrumental album, then a blues album, then Spanish guitar, then a psychedelic throwback, and so on -- and he excels at all of it. There's no single style of music you can point to as his signature sound. Labels don't like that. They want easily marketable consistency. Keaggy's philosophy has always been "There's life without a recording contract," because it has allowed him the freedom to do whatever he wants.
I am afraid you are confusing genre of music with style of playing in the above. With most of the really great players, you can rather easily identify their style of playing even when the genre of music is changed. The same goes for Keaggy who is, indeed, a great player. It just really does not do anything for me personally. I have a hard time finding the words to describe why.
I feel the same about Keaggy, great musician but nothing really catches my ear. In an earlier post I was talking about on how Lennon & McCartney were not great guitarists but what I really meant was overall not great musicians. I've always felt the Beatles were so overrated as a whole. Their music has always been very bland and vanilla to me. The chords and lyrical style is so elementary.
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Re: Guitarist Discussion

Post by curt » Sun May 10, 2020 9:04 am

executioner wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 8:50 am
curt wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 3:38 am
Mountain Man wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 6:08 pm
curt wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 3:13 pm
Keaggy ... His style however does not really work for me but that is a personal thing.
What style? Keaggy's music is extremely diverse. It's one of the reasons he's never been a mainstay on any record label, because he would make a straight ahead rock n' roll album followed by an acoustic instrumental album, then a blues album, then Spanish guitar, then a psychedelic throwback, and so on -- and he excels at all of it. There's no single style of music you can point to as his signature sound. Labels don't like that. They want easily marketable consistency. Keaggy's philosophy has always been "There's life without a recording contract," because it has allowed him the freedom to do whatever he wants.
I am afraid you are confusing genre of music with style of playing in the above. With most of the really great players, you can rather easily identify their style of playing even when the genre of music is changed. The same goes for Keaggy who is, indeed, a great player. It just really does not do anything for me personally. I have a hard time finding the words to describe why.
I feel the same about Keaggy, great musician but nothing really catches my ear. In an earlier post I was talking about on how Lennon & McCartney were not great guitarists but what I really meant was overall not great musicians. I've always felt the Beatles were so overrated as a whole. Their music has always been very bland and vanilla to me. The chords and lyrical style is so elementary.
Keaggy is one of those where I instantly hear he is a great player, but it does not really move me in any way. I have never been moved by anything he played while that happens quite often when I listen a player like Knopfler. And I repeat, it is a personal thing.

Well, I agree with you about The Beatles. To some extent they were "the first" (they really were not but that is how they are precieved). When I look at bands like Beatles and Stones I very often get the feeling that they are overrated due to their place in history.
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