Christianity & Smoking

[js3971]

And Brent, as amazing as it may seem, even you have fallen under the category of sinner. So I guess that means you're as stupid as the rest of us.

[somewhere]

Stupid, moron and dumb are in the dictionary but we have a choice to either use them or not. By using them we tell people what kind of a person we are (not caring, not loving, no hope for you, I am better than you).

[brent]

I'm sorry you have stupid relatives.

Me too.

My grandfather died of cancer related to smoking.
My grandmother died of cancer related to smoking.

My other grandfather had a heart attack, was told that if he didn't stop smoking that he would die. He quit that moment and lived a couple of decades longer.
My other grandmother quit out of embarrasment and never looked back.

My mother-in-law smokes like a stack, has health problems out the cazoo, all started from smoking. She said that it is the one thing that she enjoys doing.

One of her sisters got cancer from smoking and hepatitis from other things.

Stupid decisions lead to living in bondage. You can't be in bondage and serve God completely. You cannot serve two masters. You cannot let your flesh run the show. Paul said that he buffeted (translated: beat it into submission) his body so that he could do what he should do. That is the example. I would not take any spiritual guidance from someone that is giving an "in my face" sign that they are loosing the war.

[brent]

Stupid, moron and dumb are in the dictionary but we have a choice to either use them or not. By using them we tell people what kind of a person we are (not caring, not loving, no hope for you, I am better than you).

People that make a daily, if not hourly decision to damage their body, dirty up my air, cause themselves to die early and steal the time away from their loved ones are not people that would be offended. They need the truth.

I did this. I found a doctor with a set of lungs in a jar, taken from a smoker. Put that under the cigarettes and lighter. That didn't phase them.

[brent]

And Brent, as amazing as it may seem, even you have fallen under the category of sinner. So I guess that means you're as stupid as the rest of us.

We all fail and do sinful things. Sure. "For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God." But there is a difference in my sins of ommission and someone blatantly trying to kill themselves with a habit that could cost over $50k over the lifetime of a smoker.

Living intentionally to please God, making the occassional error is much different than dedicating/budgeting money for a habit, setting your work, dining and relaxation schedules around said habit, and going nuts if the habit cannot be performed.

I serve God and seek him daily. Stupid people serve their flesh and beg for a miracle on their deathbed. Big difference.

[calicowriter]

So much for 1 Peter 3:8 -- Finally, all of you, live in harmony with one another; be sympathetic, love as brothers, be compassionate and humble.

Or Col 3:12 -- Therefore, as God's chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience.

Or Phil 2:1-3 -- If you have any encouragement from being united with Christ, if any comfort from his love, if any fellowship with the Spirit, if any tenderness and compassion, then make my joy complete by being like-minded, having the same love, being one in spirit and purpose. Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves.

[js3971]

The woman caught in adultery? Was she stupid? If so, why didn't Jesus call her so? He told her that he didn't condemn her and he encouraged and empowered her to go and sin no more. The thief on the cross? Again Jesus didn't call him stupid. He told him that today you'll be with me in paradise. Jesus came into the world to save it, not condemn it. Thank the Father that he sent Jesus to save us and not the all knowing Brent.

[Schlittism33]

Excellent reminder Bridget

[executioner]

Yes Brent's comments are somewhat harsh and I would have probably taken a different route in saying what was said, but they ring so true if you look at the big picture and he has a point.

[js3971]

The Bible also is clear that all sin leads to death, both spiritually and physiclly. So whether it's smoking, or lying, or adultery, or gossip, or slander, or gluttony, or apathy, or doubt, or unbelief, or stealing, or whatever, it all leads to the same thing, we die. And most of our sins are done intentionally, knowing that God says you shouldn't do this because of the harm it's going to do to you, spirtitually, soulically, physically. So, by Brent's definition, we are all stupid, including him.

I understand Brent's point too. That doesn't necessarily mean I have to agree with it. Nor does it mean he or anyone else has to agree with mine.

[brent]

So much for 1 Peter 3:8 -- Finally, all of you, live in harmony with one another; be sympathetic, love as brothers, be compassionate and humble.

Or Col 3:12 -- Therefore, as God's chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience.

Or Phil 2:1-3 -- If you have any encouragement from being united with Christ, if any comfort from his love, if any fellowship with the Spirit, if any tenderness and compassion, then make my joy complete by being like-minded, having the same love, being one in spirit and purpose. Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves.

1. I cannot sympathize with someone killing themselves. I cannot sympathize with them on their death bed. Especially when they die admitting that they know they did themselves in. That was my personal experience anyway.

2. Don't think that I told people to their face "Your a sinner and you are stupid." It isn't like that. You must be truthful with people about their situation and the remedy. Some might say that this is intolerant. I would say that Jesus himself confronted people where they were, detailed their sinful states, and gave them the remedy. Jesus even used brute force with a whip, chasing people out of the temple. Some would say that was not compassionate, humble or kind.

[js3971]

You're right Brent. Jesus did those things. But whenever he confronted nonreligious people, the pagans, or the Gentiles (whatever label you want to give them), he did do it with compassione. He did tell the truth. He is the truth. The Bible says to speak the truth, IN LOVE (Jesus, being the Word, aka, the Truth, and also being LOVE, did this. If we do it, we speak the word.) He always did it with kindness, gentleness, etc. He never did it out of the anger of man, which never brings about God's righteousness.

The book of I Corinthians tells us what love is and does. The book of I John tells us that God is love. So then, I Corinthians not only tells us what love is and does, but WHO love is and WHO love does (or what God is and what God does). It clearly states that love is kind.

Jesus did confront sin pretty harshly. He died for it. He also spoke very bluntly to some people, and did chase people out of the temple with a whip. And sin is sin, whether that sin is doing things to harm ourselves, harm others, lying, stealing, adultery, whatever.

He called a group of people a brood of vipers and that they were of their father, the devil. Who did Jesus deal harshly with? It was the religious hipocrytes, who knew the letter of the law, but didn't know the Spirit of love behind the law.

Brent, if I agree with your statements previously, then I have no choice but to call you, myself, and every person who has ever lived on the face of the earth, with the exception of Jesus himself, what you have called them, stupid. It's obvious I don't agree with your statement. So therefore, I don't think you're stupid.

[Tutor23]

Question: how did this ancient thread get resurrected, 3 years after it was originally proffered?

I believe smoking is wrong, as is any other deliberate behavior that harms one's body. What about eating a doughnut? Most would agree that such "food" is unhealthy. What about fatty McDonald's burgers?

My point is that we all have areas of imperfection in our souls - some imperfections just happen to be outwardly visible than others - and that God wants us to allow his light to shine on those areas so he can help us clean them out. But he doesn't clean all of the cobwebs out at once - it's a life-long process, isn't it.

Priorities - the Spirit seems to bring them up to my attention in my own life in the order he chooses. When I become aware of specific areas that are ungodly in my life, I become responsible to work on them, with God's help. When I've achieved some measure of victory in a behavioral area, for example, it usually isn't long before the next set of "cobwebs" is brought to my attention. It's called spiritual growth. My responsibility is to answer to my own conscience, in accordance with God's word (assuming, of course, my conscience is still working properly and is not "seared").

We are never told not to judge - what we ARE told is to judge carefully. And someone said "don't judge by outward appearance". Well, friend, as men we have no other method of making judgments! We MUST judge by outward appearance (only God can see and judge the heart - we can't do that!). We are to judge by looking at a person's "fruits" - read "behavior". If someone deliberately continues in known sinful behavior, then yes, that is a bad sign. If Lichens is indeed doing that, then you should be wary of him and his counsel. But let's be careful not to "condemn" someone - only God can do that. And let's be careful about "writing someone off" too quickly - one should at least look at the largest possible body of evidence before determining that that person has fallen off the bandwagon. Perhaps he is struggling with this issue and wants to overcome it (although, I will agree that placing such behavior on public display on a music video doesn't sound like someone who is trying to overcome it).

OK, this post is now officially too lengthy. I'll shut up!
Godspeed everyone!
Andy from Indiana

[brent]

"Excuse me Sir. You are blowing your second hand donut breath in my babies face. Please stop."

Greeter: "How many will be dining tonight?"
Me: "Five."
Greeter: "Would like glazed or non-glazed?"

You are right. Drinking the wrong things, eating the wrong things, eating too little, too much...it's all going to hurt you and someone around you in some form or fashion. They just don't all have the same effect directly or indirectly.

I know plenty of snot slingin', fire and brimstone screamin evangelists that have their soul winnin' down, but they can put an buffet out of business. That is not a good testimony. We should look like who we serve in more ways than appearance. But, the world is going to see if what we believe is real and if we have truly let God rule all of us. What we have on the inside should be reflected on the outside.

[Dan]

I kinda sit on the fence on this one as an ex smoker. I stopped smoking because of the damage it was causing to my health and because the body is the temple of the holy spirit. I think we should be very careful about the way we judge people with addictions, such as smoking.

Smoking is a powerful addiction and the time when people get hooked on cigarettes is usually at a time in there life when they are going peer pressure and that addiction stays there sometimes for life and every day is a battle.

So when you say you have no sympathy for people dying from lung cancer or substance related problems, keep in mind if food like cream buns, donuts etc.. western culture food, it does damage go easy on it cause gluttony kills... its no different to smoking, its all about control. think about it.