Ray Boltz GAY?

epdc · Post by **epdc** » Sun Sep 21, 2008 5:36 pm

Brent, homosexuality is a very complicated topic, I donÂ´t think thereÂ´s a 100% correct answer.

I believe being gay is a sin but I also realize that the gay people I have met, they didnÂ´t CHOOSE to be gay, I mean, they didnÂ´t wake up one day saying "I think IÂ´m going to feel attracted to my same sex", NO, is something that they started feeling, it is something that just happened. What is the correct explanation I donÂ´t know.

Have you ever thought in spiritual inheritance?, maybe who knows, maybe the person that is gay has ancesters that commit certain sins and that whole spiritual curse passed to the person, have you ever thought of that?. there could be many possible explanations that doesnÂ´t have to be a contradiction of what God says.

When I see a gay person I donÂ´t see a "sick person that is doing horrible sexual things", I see someone whose heart I donÂ´t know, I donÂ´know what led that person to become gay, yes it is a sin, but the person is not doing it like "un purpose", I believe homosexuality is something beyond the human being, that is something beyond a person control and that only God can change.

As I said before, the only thing we can do is pray for them and it is not our problem, but their problem with God...

separateunion · Post by **separateunion** » Sun Sep 21, 2008 5:37 pm

brent wrote:There is no biological support for homosexuality being genetic. In fact, there is proof that it is not. There is more proof of it being environmentally influenced. Until some homosexual doctors had influence in 1973, homosexuality was considered a mental disorder by the medical profession.

There are biological factors beyond genetics. I'm not sure why that is so hard to understand. Please point out where I said it was a genetic issue.

Like Elo said, people don't wake up one day and just decide to be gay. Well, some may (which is kinda dumb, if you ask me), but the gays I have been friends with certainly did not.

A drug addict will tell you they have no choice too. It is a learned behavior, forced upon them by abuse of a sexual nature (most of the time statistics say) or picked up because of relationships with a parent.

Are you just purposely being ignorant or do you really not get the difference between orientation and action? Doing drugs is wrong. Being tempted to do drugs is not wrong. The same thing goes for homosexuals.

Maybe it would make things clearer if I said that being openly gay is a sin? The only point I'm trying to make here is that some people do not chose to be attracted to the same gender, but it is a sin to act on the attraction.

gman · Post by **gman** » Sun Sep 21, 2008 6:40 pm

separateunion wrote:
brent wrote:There is no biological support for homosexuality being genetic. In fact, there is proof that it is not. There is more proof of it being environmentally influenced. Until some homosexual doctors had influence in 1973, homosexuality was considered a mental disorder by the medical profession.
There are biological factors beyond genetics. I'm not sure why that is so hard to understand. Please point out where I said it was a genetic issue.

Like Elo said, people don't wake up one day and just decide to be gay. Well, some may (which is kinda dumb, if you ask me), but the gays I have been friends with certainly did not.

A drug addict will tell you they have no choice too. It is a learned behavior, forced upon them by abuse of a sexual nature (most of the time statistics say) or picked up because of relationships with a parent.
Are you just purposely being ignorant or do you really not get the difference between orientation and action? Doing drugs is wrong. Being tempted to do drugs is not wrong. The same thing goes for homosexuals.

Maybe it would make things clearer if I said that being openly gay is a sin? The only point I'm trying to make here is that some people do not chose to be attracted to the same gender, but it is a sin to act on the attraction.

I could be missing it, but it sounds likr Brent is arguing that the only way someone could be born gay is if it were inherited genetically; which he belives the science is settled that it cannot be inherited.
Personally, I've met plenty of straight men, ar at least you assume based on their choices that they are straight, who come across as more feminine than othe guys. I think it's possible for the right combination of circumstances and hormonal makeup to come together, resulting in a confused individual who develops an attraction to the same sex, but I have difficulty with the idea of someone being born that way. That would be opening the gates to people being born that in way in regards to any specific sin.

GMan

separateunion · Post by **separateunion** » Sun Sep 21, 2008 7:19 pm

right combination of circumstances and hormonal makeup to come together

Bingo. I'm not denying that circumstances can't confuse individuals. I'm not denying that some people don't outright choose to be gay. What I am arguing is that some people have a biological make up, like a hormonal imbalance, that makes them attracted to the same gender. Some may be born with it, some may acquire it over time, but there is so much more to human biology than simply what genes you are born with. If genetics were the case, there would be an identifiable straight gene.

notunderground · Post by **notunderground** » Sun Sep 21, 2008 8:18 pm

separateunion,

If human nature is fallen (and I believe it is), then maybe your opinion on sexual orientation â€œbeing realâ€

separateunion · Post by **separateunion** » Sun Sep 21, 2008 8:49 pm

All of you arguing that homosexuality orientation is always a choice, period, let me pose you this question:

Have you ever been friends with a homosexual? If so, did they tell you they couldn't help but have the attraction they had or did they say that they decided to have that attraction?

separateunion · Post by **separateunion** » Sun Sep 21, 2008 9:29 pm

[quote="notunderground"]If human nature is fallen (and I believe it is), then maybe your opinion on sexual orientation â€œbeing realâ€

74CAPethead · Post by **74CAPethead** » Mon Sep 22, 2008 6:25 am

[quote=God gives unregenerate people over to their depravity. This is the doctrine of total depravity. Without Christ, all are deprave in their fallen human nature: you, me, Bob and John. All of us.
quote]

Not BOB!!!

separateunion · Post by **separateunion** » Mon Sep 22, 2008 6:45 am

Thanks for the Scripture reference, RJ.

And the government bailing out those businesses is just a travesty. Completely opposite of what the free market system is supposed to be. I definitely don't like the precedent and fear that this propping up of the economy could have dire consequences.

yamasaaaki har har · Post by **yamasaaaki har har** » Mon Sep 22, 2008 1:56 pm

brent wrote:chess with animals

I can imagine it now.

"Check mate."
"Woof."

Yeah I know he meant to say the forbidden s word but I just couldn't resist making a dumb joke. Har har.

notunderground · Post by **notunderground** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 11:56 pm

SU- All of you arguing that homosexuality orientation is always a choice, period, let me pose you this question:

NU. RESPONSE- Not me! Youâ€™re firing your canon at a hill Iâ€™m not on. The argument that I am positing is that â€œhomosexual orientationâ€

executioner · Post by **executioner** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 2:23 am

I believe it is a choice simply made by the individual. Yeah I'm sure this person didn't set out in life to be a homosexual, just like a drug addict, or any other fallen nature.

charl · Post by **charl** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 2:54 pm

What a bizzare discussion. Too bad I missed it. I didn't see anyone mention the giving over by God.

That would of course force us to admit that idolatry is the real problem I suppose.

brent · Post by **brent** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 3:42 pm

James Dobson was on Larry King discussing a different subject when homosexuality came up. I was educated in this area a bit more. I can't say that my views and interpretations have changed. I can say that they have been fine tuned a bit.

Dobson also stands on the data that if it were something people were born with, twins would both be born gay. There would be a gene. But that is not the case. He thinks that it is not ALWAYS a choice for some. It can be imposed on a person. Some can choose it, as they progress through sexual sins/lifestyles.

For those that do not choose it outright, it is a result of social influence, positive and negative relationships where affection later becomes misguided and misapplied towards others of the same sex.

Once someone has come to the realization that gay life is wrong, then it is their choice to continue or not. The fact that there are born again former homosexuals proves that leaving it IS a decision that can be made. The fact that God said do not do it is another. The fact that it is outside of the order of marraige, reproduction and holiness says it is.

Assuming that God has turned gays over to their own lusts, or that they are purposefully living in sin is wrong. We don't know how or why the people were programmed through relationships. We do not know (if they know) about possible abuse. We cannot get in their head. Would we want to? All we can do is reach out to them, point the way to Christ, and educate them that they do have a choice.

charl · Post by **charl** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 7:29 pm

Do you know the difference between genetic and genetic predisposition Brent?

Studies have shown that a concert of biological and environmental factors may affect sexual orientation in men (lesbians are often a different story). For instance estrogen levels in utero appear to have a link to later sexual orientation. People really do not just choose to be gay. This is not only a simplistic view of the medical issues but of the issue of a will bound in sin.

You also disregard the fact that human kind is given over to this by God. Again it is not a choice, but is the just punishment for looking at a mirror to find God. Suddenly we find ourselves utterly inflamed with passion for the same. Make no mistake that is not a choice but a punishment.

The Petra Zone

Ray Boltz GAY?

re

well...

Re: ZIS IS BLASH. IF YU KAN'T HANDEL IT D'ONT LEAD.

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