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what about those who never heard of Jesus? artivle

Posted: Fri May 21, 2004 1:33 pm
by WR1U
Omega Letter Christian Intelligence Digest javascript:onClick=window.print()javascript:onClick=window.print()


Special Report: What About the Person Who Never Heard of Jesus?
In Defense of the Faith
Friday, May 21, 2004
Jack Kinsella - Omega Letter Editor
One of the most common questions one can expect to hear from a skeptic is this one: "If Jesus is the only way to heaven, then what about all those people who never heard of Jesus Christ?" This usually results in the Christian mumbling something about 'God's mysterious ways' or answering with a lame counter-question like, "How do you know they never heard about Jesus?"
This is generally about the place where the testimony flies apart and the heated debate begins. One cannot logically argue that everybody who ever lived has heard of Jesus Christ. There was a period before Jesus Christ, for example. Then there are the millions who lived and died in the first few centuries of Christendom. How could the American Indians of the 2nd century, for example, have heard of Jesus?
That question troubled Joseph Smith so much he wrote his own testament in 1840 to explain it, founding the Mormon Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.
Of course, while Smith explained away the Indians by inventing a 'gospel' in which Jesus came to the New World and so on, that still doesn't help the New Guinea headhunters who lived in the 13th century or the Polynesians of 5th century Hawaii, etc., etc.
So, we are faced with a seemingly insurmountable contradiction that seems best explained by Paul quoting Exodus 33:19: " For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion." (Romans 9:15)
To the Christian, this makes sense and lines up with Scripture. God simply decided that the New Guinea headhunters and the Polynesian pagans weren't among those upon whom God had compassion, according to His sovereign will. A Christian would never question the sovereign will of God, but the skeptic questions everything.
And it leaves the Christian a little confused, too, although he won't admit it. Deep in your heart of hearts, don't YOU wonder a little bit about that? It is even harder to explain something when it doesn't quite make sense to you.
The Scriptures say that Christians are the kings and princes of the world to come. And Proverbs 25:2 tells us that, "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter."
There MUST be a better answer to that question than 'God's mysterious lack of compassion' that condemns the millions who lived and died without ever hearing the Good News to hell as a matter of sovereign election.
What the Scriptures tell us is that there is a stricter judgment for those who have rejected the Gospel than there is for those who have never heard. Consider 2nd Thessalonians 2:12 where it says that, for those who choose to the believe the lie, there will be no recourse after the Rapture.
"And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they ALL might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness." This passage clearly condemns only those who "believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness".
In order to 'believe not the truth' one must first HEAR the 'truth'.
But that is AFTER the Rapture and during the Tribulation. That still doesn't help the Polynesian pagans of the 5th century AD, who never heard the truth in the first place.
"For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;) In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel." (Romans 2:14-16)
Do you see it? The Polynesian pagans of the 5th century didn't HAVE the Law OR the Gospel. They are judged by the WORK of the law 'written in their hearts' according to their God-given consciences. God will judge them according to how their thoughts worked with or against the conscience, and on that basis, "God shall judge the secrets of men BY Jesus Christ ACCORDING TO MY GOSPEL."
A further indication that the judgment of God is based upon what we know and what we have been given can be seen in a warning by James:
"Let not many of you become teachers, my brethren, knowing that as such we shall incur a stricter judgment." (James 3:1)
In other words, those who know the gospel, study it, and teach it will be under stricter judgment, since they have the ability of guide others, or lead them astray.
Jesus, in the parable of the Master and the slaves (Luke 12:41-48) talked about the difference in judgment between those who know the will of God vs. those who do not know:
"And that slave who knew his master's will and did not get ready or act in accord with his will, shall receive many lashes, but the one who did not know it, and committed deeds worthy of a flogging, will receive but few. And from everyone who has been given much shall much be required; and to whom they entrusted much, of him they will ask all the more." (Luke 12:47-48)
The Scriptures say the truth is that " Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." (Acts 4:12) But, as already noted by Scripture, to know the truth, one must first hear the truth.
There is but one Name we can call on for salvation. Nobody else can save us but Jesus. Or Yeshua (in English, Joshua). Or Christ, which is Greek for the Hebrew 'Moshiach' (Messiah) which isn't the Name of Jesus at all, but His Title of 'the Anointed One'. And those are just the Hebrew, English and Greek translations. There are hundreds of languages.
Although it isn't listed first by the canon of Scripture, the oldest book of the Scriptures is the Book of Job. Some scholars even argue that it was authored before the Flood and was preserved by Noah, but even if it is post-Diluvian in origin, it predates Moses by centuries.
Long before Moses received the Ten Commandments written by the Finger of God, Job said confidently;
"For I know that my Redeemer Liveth, and that He shall stand at the latter day upon the earth: And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God: Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me." (Job 19:25-27)
It is an accepted tenet of doctrine by most Christians that all those who die without faith in Christ will be relegated to spend eternity in Hell - even if they have never heard the gospel. The Scriptures seem to indicate otherwise:
"And He will judge the world IN RIGHTEOUSNESS; He will execute judgment for the peoples WITH EQUITY."(Psalms 9:8)
"Before the LORD; for He is coming to judge the earth; He will judge the world with righteousness, And the peoples with equity." (Psalms 98:9)
"But, O LORD of hosts, who judges righteously, Who tries the feelings and the heart, Let me see Thy vengeance on them, For to Thee have I committed my cause." (Jeremiah 11:20)
"But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, who WILL RENDER TO EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS: to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life;" (Romans 2:5-7)
"...for the Law brings about wrath, but where there is no law, neither is there violation." (Romans 4:15)
". . . for until the Law sin was in the world; but sin is not imputed when there is no law." (Romans 5:13)
This is not any sort of ecumenical theology or "all ways lead to God." Those who have heard the gospel of Jesus Christ and have refused to believe have rejected Him, and, as such, will fall under the condemnation of God, because they have rejected His provision for our disobedience.
The atheist and the skeptic are still 'without excuse' (Romans 1:18:20) but that isn't the same thing as the condemnation of those who, by time and circumstance, have never heard of either the Law or the Gospel, but conduct themselves according to the unwritten law in their heart.
Those who perpetrate evil, even without the knowledge of the gospel, will likewise be condemned, since they have violated their God-given conscience.
But what happens to those who never called upon the Name of Jesus because they never heard the Name of Jesus? God will judge them in righteousness, according to His own Word. They aren't the ones the skeptic needs to worry about.
He won't have their excuse when its his turn to stand before the Judge. He ALREADY knows better, but, by his very skepticism, he is the one who believes "not the truth, but has pleasure in unrighteousness."
Unless he repents, according to Scripture, HIS fate is sealed. We can trust God to deal with the New Guinea tribesman 'with equity' -- as He promised He would.
It's not that difficult a question, after all.
Excerpted from the Omega Letter Daily Intelligence Digest, Volume 32, Issue 16
� http://www.omegaletter.com

yea

Posted: Fri May 21, 2004 10:16 pm
by PetraFan007
Sounds good to me. The only thing I don't understand is...how is God going to judge Christians? What happens during that judgment? I know I'm a Christian but should I expect to be judged? Is, at that point, Jesus going to step in and say, "No, I took the blame for him 2,000 years ago and I've paid that price." and God says, "Sold, enter in to heaven." or something to that effect? I'm not sure what to expect. All I know is, when the Bible says to work out our salvation with fear and trembling, IT'S TRUE! LOL.

well

Posted: Sat May 22, 2004 11:50 am
by epdc
in school i have been reading some stuff and there are some theories.

the priests of the 15 th century that came to america wondered themselves the same question. they europeans had no idea that there was a land so when america was discovered it was like a big schock. is like if us would discover that there is another planet with people like us. we would start to wonder: are they animals? the Bible doesn�t talk about them...what about salvation for them?...etc, well some priests presented the theory that you will be judge if you knew about Jesus but didn�t receive it.

and now talking about the ones who never heard of Jesus, since they were worshipping other Gods. A worship leader or mine and also in some of the history articles i read, it says that they will be judge by their deeds. I mean, maybe they were worshipping a different god instead of Yahwe but if they acted good,if they did good things for their god, God counts that because in their ignorance, they were looking for *Him*. They ended up finding a different God, but they were looking for Him.

ya know, i also think that theory appears in narnia chronicles, i think.


Jay, about the judgement for christians, I believe that God will not test if we go to Heaven or not, since Jesus will say "I paid their debt", in the judgement God will say how we acted in our lives, if we reflected Him and then He will give us our reward.

not quite right

Posted: Mon May 24, 2004 7:19 am
by gman
That article seems a bit sketchy to me. The bible is clear on two points. One is that Jesus is the only way to heaven, as clearly stated in John. The other is that no man is without excuse. Romans is clear that everyone is accountable to God including those who are in place where the gospel has never been preached. It states that they can know about God through natural revelation, meaning through God's creation. I don't think, however, that just recognizing there is some sort of God in charge is enough. Again, the bible is clear that the only way to heaven is through Jesus. So, I think the better answer is that if there is a person or group of people who have come to recognize that there is a God and they are truly seeking to know more, God, who is all powerful and can do anything, will send someone to them to bring the gospel. This has been true in the history of mdoern missions. There are stories of missionaries finding previously undiscovered remote tribes that were already worshipping the God of the bible and just needed the Gospel presented to them.
What that article is suggesting is that there is an exception granted for those who have never heard about Jesus whereby God uses something other than faith in Christ as the measure of righteousness for those people. I don't personally buy into that idea. The article seems to try and fit scripture into one persons feeling sorry for those who have never heard.
One other point is that if God grants an exception to those people whereby they are not accountable to faith in Christ, then it would be better for us to not even try to bring the Gospel to those people. Once they hear the Gospel, then they would definitely be accountable, and we would be responsible for them possibly going to hell since we brought them the Gospel. That's not right either. We do missions and attempt to get the gospel to every place we possibly can because everyone is accountable to it without exception.

i still think

Posted: Mon May 24, 2004 3:49 pm
by epdc
that that opinion is too.....close?? ya know, it doesnt make you have an open mind ya know.

wow, i didn`t know that tribes case you mentioned, that`s awesome, wow :D

you said something about people receiving God`s revelation, in His creation. I like that theory, I think i read somewhere in the Bible, but can`t remember where.

I don`t believe that "you never heard about Jesus, so you go to hell, byebye", there must be something else we don`t know. I read in the Bible (what can`t i remember the verse?) that if people didn`t know NEVER about Jesus then God has a different judgement for them. I`ll look for the verse and I promise I`ll let you guys know.

allow me to modify my opinion on this

Posted: Tue May 25, 2004 9:02 am
by gman
I read an interesting article which helped clarify my thinking on this. There are passages in Romans which indicate that one can develop an understanding of God and seek God based on God's creation having been revealed to them and based on their own conscience. If the gospel is brought to a remote place where it has never been preached, those who have been seeking God will readily accept it. Those who are not willing to accept it are not any worse off than before the Gospel was preached. No one is getting into heaven simply because of their own ignorance; because the gospel was never brought to them. God could easily exclude them from heaven because they didn't have any kind of faith in God and they were not seeking God.
The article pointed out that people in the Old Testament like Abraham and Job were credited with righteousness based on Christ's death and resurrection even though they didn't fully understand what was to come. It also pointed out that there were those in the new Testament, like Phillip the Eunich, who sought God, and God revealed himself more and sent the Gospel to them.
The article mentioned a tribe where a grandfather had an understanding God and sought after him. He spoke out against the evil being done and he had a deep understanding if his own sinfulness. He told his granddaughter that someday God would send someone to show them the way of Salvation. Someone did eventually bring the Gospel to that tribe, but the man was long gone by then. His testimony seems to line up well with the Romans verses about knowing God through creation and conscience. As the article pointed out, there is no verse in scripture to tell us that the fate of that tribesman is any different then the Old Testmament saints like Abraham. It is possible that the man will be credited with the righteousness of Christ depsite his lack of knowledge of it. God may have given him all the revelation that was necessary for him to have faith and receive righteousness. Major here being that the man was seeking after the true God and ultimately God did send the Gospel to that tribe. I'm inclined to believe that the gospel was sent because of that man's faith and that the man was credited with righteousness.
The last point of the article was that we must ultimately leave it in God's hands and trust that he will do the right thing.
I think that those who do not know and are living for sin are not getting into heaven simply becuase they never heard the Gospel. Also, I don't think that even those who do good things, but without faith in God, will get heaven simply because they have never heard and do good things.

re

Posted: Tue May 25, 2004 10:34 am
by epdc
i never said that only because of the person is ignorant, it will automatically go to Heaven, even if this person had a sinful life. I only said that for the ones thatdidn`t know there must be an mmm option? how can I say it?, don`t know, maybe God reveal Himself to them somehow before they die or or or I don`t know ya know. I just think there must be answer to those people,a chance to choose who will they follow ya know.
Also I didn`t mean that only if you did good things but never had faith you will go to Heaven. What I meant was that the theories I read talk about the american indians (with "american" i mean all america not usa) that were worshiping other gods. they never knew about Jesus (yet, we don`t know) so what`s up with them?, these priests mention that maybe yeah, they might be following the wrong god, but they were looking for God and they thought they found Him ya know in their gods. Still, is just a theory, not that I deeply defend it :P , I just wanted to show it here.


WOW Gary, did you find that article on the net? would you give me the link? :)

Posted: Mon May 31, 2004 7:11 pm
by winterlens
It's interesting to me to note that the authors of the article interpret "having compassion" as "revealing the gospel." (When he quotes the verse in Romans 9, "I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, ...." the implication is that the author believes that God expresses his compassion by the revelation of the gospel.) In other words, if God doesn't send the gospel, then those people are condemned.

This is utter foolishness. The point of the passage is to point out that God isn't limited in showing mercy or giving compassion. He does as he pleases! And the reason he can do this is because Jesus Christ died on the cross ("Who is the one condemning? It is Christ that died, yes, rather, who has risen again"), not because someone in Papua New Guinea accepts Jesus Christ as his personal Savior.