Petra is acting as its' own record label?

[Preacherman777]

All I did was speak four words that didn't actually say anything to anybody or make any charges against anyone. Anything and everything you guys are assuming about what I meant is based on posts I replied to. Maybe you need to go and think about that.

[BForm]

When Greg was the lead I enjoyed the style but always felt like there was something missing, and then JWS came along and I believe the final piece to the puzzle was in place; He took Petra to another level.

Exe. I'm really not disrespecting your opinion, but I just don't think it's that simple. To say that the reason for Petra's explosion after John came in was due primarily to John may not be that accurate. Look at the difference in market conditions. Petra's early popularity was achieved in the face of mass resistance to the whole idea of Christian rock. By the time John came along the doors had pretty much been kicked open. It was possible for Petra to have a smaller percentage of the pie, yet the size of their piece was still much larger because the market had grown so much.

Also, there was more involved to their style changing than just John's voice. Bob was maturing as both a song writer and player. Listen to the difference from the mid 70's to Beat the System, then from Beat the System to Beyond Belief. I, for one, can't wait to hear how they freshen up the old songs, as well as what they do with the few new ones that will be on the CD. I think we may all be a little surprised. Then again.....maybe not.

Having said all that I would tend to agree that the market will probably not be that great for this project. If they maximize European connections they may do well over there. Having traveled in Europe a lot, I can tell you there is one huge factor that makes their market much different than ours. They don't suffer from the same level of "chronological arrogance" that we suffer from in America. In other words, young and old have more respect for both traditional and modern music. You find people of all ages appreciating just about everything.

[Jan]

All I know is that I am going to go to the show. I am going to leave a few bibles around TBN for someone in management to pick up and read. Judging by the crap they put on TV, I don't think they read too much of it.

[Jan]

When heard that Petra was coming back with the Beyond Belief lineup I was excited.

Would be nice, but did you mean the Farewell lineup?

[brent]

I think he meant the dream team show that they would not do.

[executioner]

When Greg was the lead I enjoyed the style but always felt like there was something missing, and then JWS came along and I believe the final piece to the puzzle was in place; He took Petra to another level.

Exe. I'm really not disrespecting your opinion, but I just don't think it's that simple. To say that the reason for Petra's explosion after John came in was due primarily to John may not be that accurate. Look at the difference in market conditions. Petra's early popularity was achieved in the face of mass resistance to the whole idea of Christian rock. By the time John came along the doors had pretty much been kicked open. It was possible for Petra to have a smaller percentage of the pie, yet the size of their piece was still much larger because the market had grown so much.

Also, there was more involved to their style changing than just John's voice. Bob was maturing as both a song writer and player. Listen to the difference from the mid 70's to Beat the System, then from Beat the System to Beyond Belief. I, for one, can't wait to hear how they freshen up the old songs, as well as what they do with the few new ones that will be on the CD. I think we may all be a little surprised. Then again.....maybe not.

Having said all that I would tend to agree that the market will probably not be that great for this project. If they maximize European connections they may do well over there. Having traveled in Europe a lot, I can tell you there is one huge factor that makes their market much different than ours. They don't suffer from the same level of "chronological arrogance" that we suffer from in America. In other words, young and old have more respect for both traditional and modern music. You find people of all ages appreciating just about everything.

I think you make some good points, but first of all I never said it had everything to do with John, I said he was the final piece to the puzzle. Unlike Greg John completed the package. John brought a presence with him that got them noticed in the secular market.

[brent]

I disagree, and can prove that it happened in 85, before John came. It was in fact the BTS record and tour that got Petra noticed more in the seculare markets. That was the year they played larger halls, had promotion that advertised on secular radio, had secular people involved with the production process, got exposure in PollStar, won an award for their stage/lighting, etc. This was the year that launched them to the next stage.

If Greg and Bob had not parted ways, would Petra have kept going? I don't know. I don't think so. The music was changing around them and in them. The industry was not accepting of them. The industry was more acceptable of other rock and hard rock, even metal. Petra went from being one of the harder sounding acts when it was not cool to be, to one of the poppier acts when it was cool. They were surpassed IMO by other acts. They were Muzak compared to Stryper in 1985.

So, this is not just a John thing. Lots of changing elements were at play. John was just the perfect solution for that era. That combination could not have made it doing what Greg did.

[Dan]

I agree Brent, the timing when Greg left was perfect for that music style as by 1987 songs like Computer Brains and the style became comical rather than cool. John was icing on the cake for Petra the perfect rock & melodic rock voice for Petra in its longest successful reign. Obviously they can't do J&H with GXV it's not for him, it has to be made for his softer voice. I suppose it will be a mystery for everyone on how this record will sound when it comes out. If it's another Vertical Expressions or Revival album type album, this will flop. IMO, I'll be ecstatic if get back to their grass roots with classic guitar, and focus on ambiance and harmony rather than try to compete with a J&H type album or the current P&W Market.

[brent]

The first one is just them recutting the original tunes. From what Greg has stated, they will modernize the mix a bit, but I don't expect radical departures from the originals. Nothing like the other re-hash record.

The record after this one will be the one to define them as they are today. Somehow I think they will be much more radio friendly. Greg's thing is the Jesus Music. My money would be on pop/rock and AC.

[executioner]

The first one is just them recutting the original tunes. From what Greg has stated, they will modernize the mix a bit, but I don't expect radical departures from the originals. Nothing like the other re-hash record.

The record after this one will be the one to define them as they are today. Somehow I think they will be much more radio friendly. Greg's thing is the Jesus Music. My money would be on pop/rock and AC.

Well if the second one is just going to be radio friendly then why are they even bothering with it.

[brent]

The purpose was to get people back with the old Jesus Music. That stuff tends to be more acoustic, folk and pop rock than hard rock. As long as Louie is playing drums and John Lawry is on keys, it will not be hard rock/anti-CCM. That is only my opinion, not an inside hint. They want success, not failure.

[CatNamedManny]

I disagree, and can prove that it happened in 85, before John came. It was in fact the BTS record and tour that got Petra noticed more in the seculare markets. That was the year they played larger halls, had promotion that advertised on secular radio, had secular people involved with the production process, got exposure in PollStar, won an award for their stage/lighting, etc. This was the year that launched them to the next stage.

Absolutely agree with this. Beat the System was huge for its time. It's easy to judge in retrospect, with the gold records and all, but no Christian band had done what Petra did in 1985 as far as record sales, radio hits, etc. The tour was huge, which was why they decided to record it.

Here's what I wrote for the Petra Wiki, keeping in mind that all this is sourced:

Beat the System sold more than 200,000 copies in four months, and by the end of the year, Billboard had certified Petra as the biggest-selling gospel music group in the country. For its career, Petra topped the million-record mark, with 900,000 of them sold in the three years since releasing Never Say Die. At the time of its release, Beat the System was the biggest Christian rock record ever released, and third-biggest Christian album of the decade (trailing only Amy Grant's Age to Age and Sandi Patti's Songs From the Heart). By the end of the decade, Beat the System's impact on the Christian sales charts trailed only records by Grant, Patti, Steve Green and Michael W. Smith.

To make that clear, Beat the System was a bigger record than This Means War! and On Fire! when accounting for the overall sale of records in Christian music at the time. By the time Petra Praise was released in 1989, Christian music was far more profitable and successful, largely because of Petra, making that album's Gold status actually less impressive than Beat the System's performance just four years earlier. BTS is probably Petra's second- or third-biggest album, depending how you rank Unseen Power (how did that not go Gold?).

[Mountain Man]

All I know is that I am going to go to the show. I am going to leave a few bibles around TBN for someone in management to pick up and read. Judging by the crap they put on TV, I don't think they read too much of it.

Sure they do. They just cross out all the parts that don't apply to them.