Win a Free Head East CD

[executioner]

Godpleaser,

At least the secular artists are being honest about what is in their music/lyrics and how they are living their lives, unlike most of their counterparts in CCM.

Example: About 8-10 yrs ago there was this local Christian band that started getting some gigs around our area, and about the same time there was this very large Baptist church that was looking to start a Saturday night service for younger adults to come in and get more of a contemprary feel in worship. This church hired this band to lead worship on Sat. nights, so this band had a regular gig which was very needed moneywise, and they did this gig until they released their second album. This band released this album in 2001 and it struggled to get noticed at all; About 18 months later one of the band members(a married man) met a lady through a mutual friend that was a program director of the top secular radio station in the area and she agreed to play one of the bands songs and it hit BIG! and now this band is one of the top CCM artists around, but there is one little problem. This band member has this ongoing affair with the radio station program director, and in the last year he has left his wife, dissolved his association with his local church, but he is still in this band. Everyone that is associated with this band knows what is going on, but chooses to ignore the sitaution. I would assume that their CCM record label knows also, but chooses to do nothing. This is one of the reasons I am tired of CCM.
We all know about Amy Grant, Sandi Patti, and Michael English, but I wonder how many more are there out there. I know they are human just like us, but I believe they have a responsibility because of them being ministers. This is why I listen to secular music and very little CCM music. I know what the secular artists basically believe and do, unlike their CCM counterparts. I also believe in my heart this is one reason why John & Bob decided to call it quits. John has talked about having a distaste for what is going on in CCM and has been saying it for a few years now. I really don't think they wanted any part of it anymore.

[executioner]

I would have to read it all before I would say he is right, but I think he is going the right way in some areas. Dana Key has talked somewhat about the issue also and is leading the charge in getting CCM artists noticed that actually are walking the walk and ministers first. Skillet & Jonah33 are both off of his label, and also a another group that might suprise you is Stryper. I saw them on their tour in 2003 and was totally blown away. Mike actually preached the Gospel at the end and gave an altar call, and this was in a club.

[Michael]

while i can't impart spiritual depth in one post, (that's the Word's and the Holy Spirit's job anyways) I will say that following that line of reasoning we shouldn't look at bunnies to see what a bunnies-addict has been saved out of, or use drugs to experience how someone was liberated etc...

Although this part of the water has long since gone under the bridge, I just wanted to say: good point! You are right... seeing a film in which evil is being portrayed is one thing, and hearing music where the lifestyle that one is (presumably) living is portrayed as the RIGHT thing to do... two different things. I wasn't thinking straight.

The problem with disassociating yourself totally from everything that you can't imagine Jesus listening to, or watching, or whatever, is that you wind up disassociating yourself with a large part of popular culture, and thus you are no longer even living "in the world." By listening to only Petra and other Christian bands when I was in high school, I actually lost a point of common experience with my classmates, so there were times I was not able to enter into conversations with them. This is not to say that I regret listening to CCM; I think it was good for me then and still is now. But insulating yourself from anything that is in any way worldly is tough, and probably not really a Good Idea ™

I realized long ago that if I tried to totally insulate myself from secular music, in order to be consistent I also needed to insulate myself from secular TV (which is not "Christian" and also includes a lot of the music I'd be avoiding) and secular movies. Besides being almost impossible in our media-oriented society, I don't know that it's wise. How will you ever know what's going on in the world? Except, of course, through your "Christian" friends who DO "associate with the World."

Of course, none of this is a reason to listen to music that you feel is immoral, and the song "Gettin' Lucky" definitely IS about what you think it is about. And there are I think two songs on the double CD that have one swear word each in them. Outside of that, and the album covers, in general the two albums are pretty clean... there is even a song about social responsibility to do something to make the world a better place. To me it's a baby/bathwater thing... why miss all the good parts just because of a couple of blemishes?

[calicowriter]

I think it comes down to the maturity of the believer. In this particular case, because I know John's history and how far he has come, when I listen to the Head East material and l feel the prick of my conscience at certain lyrics, it will cause me to give praise to God for what he has done in John's life. When I listen to some other classic rock from the 70s and 80s, and I hear suggestive lyrics, I am amazed and thankful that I now recognize them for what they are.

There are some songs/artists that I cannot listen to any longer because so many of their songs are too sexual and frankly, make me uncomfortable. Def Leppard and Ted Nugent both fall into that category. (Ironically though, I love to listen to Ted on the talk shows when he lets the liberal left have it on other social issues.)

[Michael]

calico, it seems like you and I think kind of alike. As a matter of fact, when our five-year-old is around, we don't listen to the track "Gettin' Lucky," and I know just where to turn the sound down to "mute" the swear words. In fact, in the car whenever I know a bad word is coming up in a song, I "mute" it... for his sake, because I don't want him to repeat those words, not for mine and Cat's.

There's some stuff I won't watch or listen to, too, not because I think I would be sinning exactly, but like you said, because it makes me "feel uncomfortable."

[charl]

This has become an interesting discussion!

I would say the maturity of the believer is not the only factor (though it certainly is one) but as mentioned, the weaknesses of the believer also must be taken into account.
One person is sorely tempted by something, and another doesn't give it a second thought. I think the 'uncomfortable' feeling is a good indicator of things to avoid, but then not everyone has the same feeling concerning the same things.

Executioner: Do you think that perhaps one of the problems in CCM is not just hypocricy of not calling these people out, but fear of the kind of reception they would get if they came clean and confessed their sins early on? (you know we're supposed to be better than the world...aren't we?)

I have often wondered the same thing about Pastors. When a pastor sins and is found out, he loses everything, is shunned far more than a congregant. Yet even before it gets to that point, no one seems to want to hear him confessing sins and being honest-they want him to be above reproach. I think this makes it much much harder to break free of sin. The idea that one has a responsibility to all these people to be perfect.
I think that is a problem-who does the minister who's trying to be honest turn to? Where should the mucisian in CCM who's trying to be honest turn to? No one seems to want to hear it. Is the problem the fact that we have elevated these people to a high precipice from which the fall is deadly? I dunno-your post makes me think about that.


Heehee I am such a thread highjacker...

[Shell]

I've made a number of posts about that sort of thing, Charl...Sure, we're responsible for our actions, and sin needs to be dealt with. That's no matter who it is. But I think people like pastors and artists are stuck between a rock and a hard place because the public does tend to expect them to be above what everyone else has to deal with. It is probably overwhelming to be a minister and not have anyone to turn to when you might need to be ministered to, and the public for the most part seems to be more interested in speculation than in praying for them. How much of what has happened in churches and CCM could have been avoided if more people realized pastors and artists are just as sinful as anyone else? There aren't enough people who really know how to hate sin and love the sinner, and Satan takes advantage of that big time. Of course, whether these people will listen when they're called to task for their actions is a topic for another thread...

We forget, things tend to get screwed up when you throw people into the mix.

[Shell]

Hehe, I just got an e-mail telling me I was one of the five people who won the free CDs.

[charl]

Aw, I never got one.

Cool for you though Shell.

[ctwomn]

Wow... Shell's gettin Lucky!