Kevin Max = What The...?

[Marion]

I haven't visited in a long time...but will now check in often because of this thread.

There's nothing funnier than people trying to explain Kevin Max's lyrics!

When you get a pop lyric explained by a botanical process (O, Co2) it's the most hilarious thing in the world!

Glad I came back and that this was the first thread I picked. You guys are a riot!

[greenchili]

We like to dig into the mind of the man...

[yamasaaaki har har]

Well, I dug into my brain once and found a little gopher running around. He must have made his home there deep in my cerebrum. So anyway, I was sorry for having disturbed the poor thing, so I packed my head back together.

[brent]

in my career we made a lot of poetry analysis and the explanations you guys have given are very good, poetry is to enjoy it and SOMETIMES to find a meaning

I agree... but when people pull out a CD from an artist that calls him or herself a "christian" artist, I think there is a need for that music to have some significance to the listener. It's like marketing raisin bran with no raisins in it. If the lyrics aren't going to have some significance to Christian listeners other than being fun to listen to and from a person who is a professing Christian, why call it "Christian?" Market it to a mainstream audience and make a lot better money with it. And then people don't gripe about it on message boards about a completely different band. hehe

So much to say.

There is only so much evangelism music that can be packed into a Christian record/book store. That is singing to the choir.

We all are tired of the same 7-11 praise songs, so I don't even need to talk about that. Sure makes me long for hymns by the time I get to church.

There is only so much vertical (from man to God) relationship music that be packed in, because none of us are in the same place in life. For instance, how many of us will go buy Kirk Talley's DVD or CD, about his fight with homosexuality? Not me. I am not there. Most guys won't buy the Clay Cross material, out of fear of being identified with a bunnies addict at the cash register. Hence his dead career at the retail level and need to go to the church.

Come on now. Being identified as a Christian artist should mean absolute freedom. Freedom to address any topic in a Godly way, in your art form of choice, providing a Godly message. As Christians we share the same planet, the same atmosphere, the same high gas prices (for no real reason), the same sicknesses, the same everything. If we start limiting Christian music to encompass only certain topics and art forms, then it becomes what it was before Larry Norman, the Imperials, Petra, Servant, etc. It was a churchified, old-fashioned, closed-minded, self serving, boring, dated, limited lifespan "product".

The Christian community is getting smaller folks. Yeah, we have mega churches, but they are full of non-committed seekers wanting a show, not born again, bible believing Christians. 90% of all churches are under 250 people. If the industry thinks that it can just cater to the average church, then it could close shop now, and still have product on the shelves in 60 days. The future is in the unchurched. The future of Christianity is in the kids in college now, who are tired of the world and are actually hungry for God. THAT is where we need to be focused. However we need to get in front of them is what we need to do.

[Marion]

Well, I dug into my brain once and found a little gopher running around. He must have made his home there deep in my cerebrum. So anyway, I was sorry for having disturbed the poor thing, so I packed my head back together.

Are you sure it wasn't the cerebellum? I think it is the more conducive to dam-building.

Just kidding. I have no idea what the difference is.

Glad to know your head is back together

[Marion]

I agree... but when people pull out a CD from an artist that calls him or herself a "christian" artist, I think there is a need for that music to have some significance to the listener. It's like marketing raisin bran with no raisins in it. If the lyrics aren't going to have some significance to Christian listeners other than being fun to listen to and from a person who is a professing Christian, why call it "Christian?" Market it to a mainstream audience and make a lot better money with it. And then people don't gripe about it on message boards about a completely different band. hehe

Maybe the raisin bran is a faulty analogy. Because the Christian genre in a record store would be equivalent to the Cereal aisle. Okay don't laugh. I'm serious. Cereal can mean diferent things. Christian music will, ultimately, be defined by the person listening. I have an old Dan Fogelberg song on my MP3 and it makes me fall deeper in love with Jesus whenever I listen to it.

The Christian genre has grown to be more of a marketing label. If Kevin Max is marketed to the mainstream audience his label would make LESS money because he'd be swallowed by the competition.

The Christian community is getting smaller folks. Yeah, we have mega churches, but they are full of non-committed seekers wanting a show, not born again, bible believing Christians. 90% of all churches are under 250 people. If the industry thinks that it can just cater to the average church, then it could close shop now, and still have product on the shelves in 60 days. The future is in the unchurched. The future of Christianity is in the kids in college now, who are tired of the world and are actually hungry for God. THAT is where we need to be focused. However we need to get in front of them is what we need to do.

1 mile wide but 1 inch deep. Sadly true. We can only pray that as Christian artists, or any of us, try to be all things to all men we don't forget our purpose.

It's so easy to get caught up in the artistry, trying to excel in your craft, that when these "hungry" college kids ask YOU for answers you find that you've nothing left to give because you expended it all on your "art" and have lost sight of God. I don't know K-Max's motives and how he handles his interviews now (heh) but I hope we all point everyone we meet in the right direction.

(Okay, off my soapbox now )

[winterlens]

I agree... but when people pull out a CD from an artist that calls him or herself a "christian" artist, I think there is a need for that music to have some significance to the listener. It's like marketing raisin bran with no raisins in it. If the lyrics aren't going to have some significance to Christian listeners other than being fun to listen to and from a person who is a professing Christian, why call it "Christian?" Market it to a mainstream audience and make a lot better money with it. And then people don't gripe about it on message boards about a completely different band. hehe

Significance does vary with the hearer, of course.

It's one thing if Kevin is pointing to his record and saying, "See, here's the gospel in all its glory!" It's entirely another if he just wants to put some music on a CD that he likes and sell it. I think the real problem is that we have somehow gotten the (wrong, IMHO) idea that anyone who is a Christian and makes music must write evangelical stuff.

There are a lot of problems with that idea, not the least of which is that most of us don't know enough about the gospel to properly put it in our own words.

We've had more than one person complain here that Petra didn't write evangelical enough music, too (meaning that they didn't use enough bait; but we fish with nets, not hooks).

Plenty of Christian artists do purely instrumental music. I haven't seen anyone too upset at them for not making proper Christian music.

[brent]

Plenty of Christian artists do purely instrumental music. I haven't seen anyone too upset at them for not making proper Christian music.

Very good point.

I think the comment Marion made about artistry proves a couple of things.

1. Christian entertainers don't realize their place in this world. Some of them think of themselves too highly. Some of them too lowly. Some of them, like John Schlitt, can have their head on straight, have a fear of God and work accordingly.

2. Listeners do not realize the place of the human race in the eyes of God. We are all equally fallen, equally savable, equally able to get to God through Jesus Christ. The artist is just a person who is hopefully saved, that can give "an answer for the faith, in season and out of season." That is all that should be expected. There isn't going to be any real meat in a 3:30 song. Meat is obtained by a daily reading of scripture and prayer life.

[greenchili]

Yeah I've always thought of christian songs as... "Hey there is someone else out there that believes in the same thing I do, Good to know" than anything. It certainly does not hurt if the music style is something I like.

Sometimes though they do stimulate the thought process which is just as vital.

That's why churches doing the same 'ol worship music just drive me nuts. I'm beginning to think that worship music is the next "Disco".

[Epyon5757]

That's why churches doing the same 'ol worship music just drive me nuts. I'm beginning to think that worship music is the next "Disco".

Churches doing the same old thing CAN drive a person nuts. But...it doesn't take much to keep a church from doing the same old thing. A talented musician or two and a talented writer or two - the writer with a deep and significant understanding of their faith - can come up with a decent number of new songs. It doesn't have to be at one time, it doesn't even have to be with the same collaborators. If there are people who are willing to use talents that God gave them in this way, then they should use it.
The discussion between the people who put together the worship portion of a service should NOT be something like "Which Chris Tomlin praise song do we use to follow the Hillsongs praise song this week, and which slow hymn should be used to wrap it all up?"
It SHOULD be something like "What meaning does God want to present for our service this week, and how best can God's will for this week be conveyed through our music?"
The church that starts having scenario #1 either needs fresh blood leading the worship portion of the service or a complete overhaul. The church having scenario #2 should NEVER have a problem with people saying "same old, same old."
Incidentally...when our usual worship leader does the service (about 2/3 of the year - the guy's an ER doc), it feels like #1 happened. When the guy who fills in for him does the service, it feels like #2 happened. It isn't a coincidence that songs that I haven't listened to for the better part of two years have their titles randomly pop into my head on the rare occasions that I get to help with the service planning. As much as I don't like hymns (I think they're old and stuffy), is it a coincidence that the one song that opened up last Sunday's service to God spiritually (and led to an unplanned open testimonial section) was an obscure hymn that I remembered from way back when I was a kid last week? I don't think so.
I wish I knew someone who could write decent lyrics. I can put music to anything - but I can't really write lyrics. I could come up with some fresh new music all day long if I had lyrics to put music to (and if I actually had an extra day somewhere in my week ).

[greenchili]

I was reading an interview with Steve Taylor on some site about his experience with writing lyrics for "praise music". Non the less he had some rather interesting things to say.

Thing is my disco comment refers more to the limitations of modern worship music than anything. Everything from the lyrics (vertical?), down the the melody (has to be singable by the average person right?), to the music itself. At least Disco you could dance to.

Bland, bland, bland....

Anyways one thing ST pointed out is, that some people are really good at it, whereas others shouldn't really bother.

[Marion]

There isn't going to be any real meat in a 3:30 song. Meat is obtained by a daily reading of scripture and prayer life.

I think this says it perfectly. Thanks for the discussion, guys.

I've just gotten a part-time job as a college instructor and only PRAY that I recognize all the opportunities to share the Gospel that come my way, or just help my students -- still feels weird that I have 'students'! -- along in whatever way.

This new experience will certainly keep me frightened enough (I mean STUDENTS! Me? Ugh!) to drive me to my knees and seek wisdom from God's word.

Of course, the "Christian" songs on my MP3 player will also help keep my focus. But will I even want to listen to them if I keep myself uninspired by God? I think not.