Which Stryper song should Petra cover?

[brent]

Orta is an attitude player, meaning that he is not the cleanest player. I'd pass on him.

I felt the same way. In fact, I would say he was rather sloppy. A lot of Bob's great guitar parts got lost in the shuffle.

I was trying to be nice.

[cndfogie]

Well I guess we can talk about sloppy guitars when we have a Grammy sitting on the shelf.

[executioner]

Well I guess we can talk about sloppy guitars when we have a Grammy sitting on the shelf.

Keep in mind that that Grammy was Petra not Orta and plus Bob was still doing most of the guitar work at that time and the arrangments also.

[cndfogie]

key word "Most" not all. Pete certainly did alot of work on Double Take. So you can;t take it that direction that he did nothing so really in an underhanded way doesn't deserve it.

[crossways]

The first time I saw the Pete Orta was after a several year drought of having seen Petra live. I remember them going into Beyond Belief and like most of you guys, at Petra shows I usually recognize the song after about 2 bars, but I was like "ok what's this?"

The famous double stop lick wasn't there. After listening a whileI began to notice that a lot of Bob's original guitar licks weren't in the new live versions.

Some of you are calling that sloppy playing. My thoughts at the time were not that Pete couldn't play that stuff, but that Petra was intentionaly trying to freshen up the "sound", and that Pete was choosing to play alternative arrangments. This was during the PP2 tour BTW.

[brent]

Well I guess we can talk about sloppy guitars when we have a Grammy sitting on the shelf.

That Grammy doesn't mean jack. It's the boys club. You want to know how to get a grammy? Have a someone who is influencial, like the label and it's attorney leadership, give lots of money to the organization. Have the producer or engineer who is buddies with another legacy producer/engineer rally his boys. Grammy's are not by the people and for the people. It is a racket, by the industry, for the industry. The votes are bought and sold. Period.

That Grammy was NOT for a good selling or even a popular or great artistic work. This true for many works, some of which you have never heard of, and the awards presented some time during the week before the gala event on TV.

Now. Studio chops and stage chops are two different things. Studio chops can be made by the editor/engineer. When someone walks on stage, they are either on, or they are not. Pete was sloppy. Period. I liked his stage presence, and what seemed to be a simple, transparent testimony. But, Pete could not play Bob's parts. John has said it himself, that he missed the songs sounding like the record. That is what we all were paying for during those years when Petra was not Petra.

[cndfogie]

This is a pointless discussion. Petra not Petra...okay And this year Santa won't be Santa. As for that statement all I can throw that up to is simple ignorance. So basically all the the Grammy's and Doves that sit on Johns shelf are bought a paid for by lawyers and record execs. As a status symbol those little golden phonographs mean something. If you think they do or they don't

[brent]

This is a pointless discussion. Petra not Petra...okay And this year Santa won't be Santa. As for that statement all I can throw that up to is simple ignorance. So basically all the the Grammy's and Doves that sit on Johns shelf are bought a paid for by lawyers and record execs. As a status symbol those little golden phonographs mean something. If you think they do or they don't

All of the time Bob was gone, to me that was Petra in name only. That's my opinion. I know that they were a viable band, blah, blah. But I like to go see my fav groups and have them play the songs note for note, or at least have the songs sound recognizable. I go see Rush, Dream Theater, etc, etc and they do it and more. Petra was not even close at the shows I attended. Of course, they also changed genres which made Petra not Petra for me. That bias is not what I am talking about now.

The Dove and Grammy nominations/awards are awarded by due paying industry people, not the fans. Yes they should valued. Not everyone is lucky enough to get them. Yes they should be proud.

Someone stated that Orta's Petra record got a Grammy, validating his skills as a good guitarist. You cannot make that assumption. Grammys and Doves are not always won by the best of players. That record was not nominated because the fans thought it was great. I think that the label got it nominated and pushed it through. Often votes are purchased, bartered, etc. With the CCM industry being as unsupporting if not hostile
to Petra as they were, I don't understand why so many would vote for them otherwise. Why the support all of a sudden when sales and concert attendance were at an all time low?

[crossways]

Petra was not even close at the shows I attended.

There is no arguing that. I have to say, even a lot of the PP2 stuff was hard to recognize without the vocal.

If you ever saw Petra live in the Beyond Belief Tour (the one that stands out the most to me) it was basically the cd live.

I have to admit too, that Petra sans Bob definaltely was not the SAME Petra. IN fact you might argue that losing John L. and Bob in the same basic time frame was almost too much. I guess that could lead to another discussion on another thread.


But while I love Petra, and wouldn't have them any other way, I'll just reiterate that I liked the two guitar sound of the Orta days, and would have liked to heard that line-up cover some of the more guitar based bands like Stryper, and Whitecross. Not arguing that Orta is a better player than Bob.

In fact, if we could just throw together a dream team to do those covers I'd love the jeckle and Hyde line-up with Brandow or Orta as the #2 man.

[cndfogie]

I never nor did anybody else elude to the Double Take Grammy being about Pete's playing ability or in your eyes lack thereof. IMHO for a band to play live and to put a special twist on the songs is much better than hearing the songs note for absolute note. That my friend is what makes a concert. If I wanted to hear the CD note for note I would just listen to the CD. If you watch the Farewell DVD or listen to the CD those songs are NOT note for note. I'm sorry but Pete Orta was not nor expected to be a Bob Hartman Jr. I just say quit doggin the guy.

[JMBJR72]

First of Petra is retired not dead. No one has died lately! I went to the concerts pp2 they were nice but seamed to be losing there luster. There is no replacing Bob he is great at what he does. My opinion has been after John L. They have missed the keyboards. I went to BB tour and Wake up call tour and you match that up will pp2. I sorry keyboards Petra! Even albums like revival & J&H had some keys were on albums but not live obviously. They missed John he turn soft song and mend into a hard song.

[brent]

JMBJR72: You know what I mean. Retired = quit = no mas = notta gonna happen = no longer playing, recording, etc.

cndfogie: You drew the line between a Grammy and Pete's playing. As far as what makes a good concert, that is all relative. I agree that twists in arrangements, solos, medleys, etc are all killer. But Petra had players that were not able to play the proper chords or solos correctly. Any one that is in a cover band or a band performing their own originals will tell you that it is most desirable to capture the essence of a song when playing it live. It may be a chord progression, a solo, a run, etc, etc...but the people must be able to recognize the tune, catch the spirit of it, and enjoy it. Too much change and the tune is no longer recognizable, and the crowd thinks of it as something they have never heard before. In my case, it becomes an irritation, because I know the way that the song should be all too well. To me and others in Petra (I know this because they told me first hand), the players refused to learn the parts, capture the essence of the songs, thus becoming a distraction. It is a sorry. That was laziness, poor musicianship, and disrespectful to John.

[cndfogie]

I guess we can agree to disagree. When it all comes down to it it is a matter of opinion. Thanks brent for making everything crystal clear.

[separateunion]

My opinion has been after John L. They have missed the keyboards.

I would agree with this assessment. The Brandow/Orta days definitely had a different sound, but I think it was more about the lack of keyboards than inability to properly play the guitar parts. I don't remember a lack of correct guitar parts standing out so much as a lack of keyboards when I saw them live .

[Jonathan]

Introducing Strypetra. Think of the possibilities...