a silly english question

epdc · Post by **epdc** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 2:16 pm

As some of you know, I`m an english teacher here in MÃ¨xico. Well, a few days ago my students asked me questions about cussing ya know. For example they asked the literal meaning of "as......le" and I said with a lot of creativity and all (because I can`t speak spanish to them in class and there`s a lot of vocabulary they still don`t know) that is the part of the butt where everything comes out LOL.

You might think "it`s obvious" but see, in spanish if we see a movie in english and they cuss with that word in our subtitles appears something like "st...d", so they wanted to know the literal meaning.

Well, this is my question, they asked me and I told them I would let them know on monday.

What exactly means "mother f....r"?
There was a whole debate lol (what can I say? we are mexicans, we make fun of everything) like "for example teacher, a ghostbuster is the person that busts ghosts, a meat-eater is an animal that eats meat, a storyteller is a person that tells stories, so a mother f. is a person that f. mothers???"LOLOL" well, I couldn`t figure it out so I told them I would investigate.

You guys as english speakers, do you know the literal meaning of it?

epdc · Post by **epdc** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 2:20 pm

Because that is not the intention.

The class is interesting because we analyze every word of any topic, for example a student said "teacher, we use the same expression (as...le) in spanish to offend others too". And then I clarified "yes but in spanish if we call someone that we mean that the person is a coward and in english that word means more like the person is bad, is stu...d ya know.

Shell · Post by **Shell** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 2:48 pm

I never really thought about where some of our bad words come from or their definitions, Elo, you gave me something to think about. LOL. Basically when you call people those things you're insulting them, which I think you understand. That's really what it boils down to, and you'll find that in every language. I'll see if I can find some background on some of our words.

brent · Post by **brent** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 3:27 pm

Are you sure that they aren't just working you over?

I guess that you would have to tell them the historical and social implications as it relates to them so that it would make sense. I think that they would get it. My brother married into a Mexican family and you can say what you want about dad, but don't mess with momma.

Here is a link that may help:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mother_fucker

epdc · Post by **epdc** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 6:28 pm

Naaaa, at first they were joking (there were 10 minutes before the class to end) but when I told them the difference between snot...le in english and the same expresion in spanish they started to ask now seriously. After asking about the MF word and me telling them that I would figure it out we jumped to other vocabulary that wasnÂ´t cuss related.

I read the wikipedia link and I found it interesting, thank you Brent! now that I read it I realize we kind of have the same offense in spanish, we use it differently but it means the same, it is like "F. your Mother!", the synonim in english would be "F. you!".

And I think I wonÂ´t post more on this topic LOL I donÂ´t wanna freak people up LOL.

Ya know shell, in this case I mentioned cuss words but when I gave a class called "oral expression in english" which is a class for people who wanna be english teachers, I had to investigate the origins of many normal english words and man it is so interesting!!!!, you should do it, either spanish or english

, thatÂ´how I have been learning new german vocabulary for my class.

brent · Post by **brent** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 6:42 pm

What those kids are doing is close to what I am doing Jews concerning the OT.

I grew up in a denomination that refused to see the Hebrew poetry and figurative speech. If the bible would have said, "The servants of God were fighting an uphill battle", they would read that to mean that they were fighting a battle going up a hill. Or if it would have said "They were up doodoo creek without a paddle", they would have been guessing where DooDoo Creek was. There is a bunch of stuff that has been translated literally into English that was not so according to some Mesianic and Eastern Orthodox Jews. I am on a quest.

Enosh · Post by **Enosh** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 7:34 pm

Swearing is an interesting topic. Is it sin? Why? Is it based on what culture you're from?

We just talked about this 2 weeks ago on my radio show. Here's a link to the show. Check it out cause it goes along with some of the comments here.

http://trs-spazz.podomatic.com/entry/20 ... 0_23-07_00

brent · Post by **brent** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 7:45 pm

The bible only says not to let any perverse language come out of our mouths. So exactly which words are perverse would be relative to the culture.

Words are like symbols. They can be used for multiple purposes in multiple cultures. Consider the Triquetra. It is a symbol for the Christian Trinity. It was also used by the Nazi Vril society. The Nazi swastica was originally a peace symbol. The sign of the Roman Cross was not exactly polite. Yet we use it as a Christian symbol.

I guess if you like to say some word that is naughty here, move I guess. I dunno.

epdc · Post by **epdc** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 12:10 am

Ya know, talking about Bible translations, a pastor told us on a sunday morning about the part of the Bible where Jesus asks Peter if he loves Him. You might "why did Jesus ask the same question 3 times?", then he said that the translation of this part is wrong. In Greek they have three words to express love, one is for your friends, another is for your family or partner (husband, wife) and another one is for God. What it actually says in the original version is this:

Peter, do you love me as a friend?
yes Jesus I love you as a friend.
Peter do you love me as a brother?
yes Jesus I love you as a brother.
Peter do you love me as your God?
Yes Jesus I love you as my God.

Interesting uh?

I really enjoy all those linguistics studies ya know.

About if cussing is a sin, I think that any word we might say or think is a sin if we have a perverse intention for it. Remember that we can say perverse things that do not have neccesarily a cuss word.

I think the main point here is the intention. For example one of my aunts calls me st...d when I make her laugh a lot, her intention is not perverse, she doesnÂ´t want to offend me, what she really means is "you are so silly! so funny!". Of course, if we talk about culture st...d is a cuss word but as you can see in some cases (very few i think lol) the intention is not perverse so I really donÂ´t think she is committing sin when she does that.

Is like for example, in spanish the F word is joder. In Spain is not a cuss word but in Mexico is. If a spanish person says it I donÂ´t think it is a sin since in his/her culture is a normal word, like saying "stop annoying me" (deja de joder) but if I use it is a sin because in my culture I would use that word only for negative purposes.

epdc · Post by **epdc** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 12:17 am

Also we gotta remember that our society has certain rules that if we wanna set a good example as christian we gotta follow them. Is like my aunt for example, between her and I is ok she says the st...d word but if she wants to give a good testimony to the world about Jesus she canÂ´t use that word since in our culture that is a cuss word.

I believe the center of sin (when we talk about our language) is the intention but before that we gotta understand as christians that we still live in a certain culture that has rules and we have to respect them if we wanna set a good example.

separateunion · Post by **separateunion** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 12:23 am

epdc wrote:In Greek they have three words to express love, one is for your friends, another is for your family or partner (husband, wife) and another one is for God.

Actually, there are 5, but a couple of them have similar meanings in english.

brent · Post by **brent** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 12:38 am

Yep/ Ye olde English sucks sometimes. You also have to remember that the Jews did not speak pure Greek. It was closer to a Yiddish. It was a combination of languages. So looking at a Strongs, etc is not going to give the proper translation either. You do need a good lexicon that tells how the words were used in their context at that time and place.

epdc · Post by **epdc** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 12:59 am

5??????????? WOW, and in spanish we have 2 and I think thatÂ´s a lot hehehehe.

I know Brent, that really fascinates me about the Bible, every book was written in a different language, or variations of a language, in a different historic, cultural context, man, when we say that the Bible is a book we will never finish to understand itÂ´s true. In church I believe we only see like one level of the Bible ya know, and even though itÂ´s only like one level we learn a lot, just imagine all the learning and growing we would get if we all would start studying the linguistics, the grammar, the meaning of concepts, the way people acted or thought back then, man, is like a whole universe to explore!!!

I believe thatÂ´s why is my favorite book, is not like a certain novel you read and one day you think "i know the story by memory and I have already analyze it", with the Bible we just never end.

Dan · Post by **Dan** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 12:15 pm

To be honest when I came to this country, I thought the "F" word was used in common talk, foreigners should note: Bruce Willis is NOT a good example of a typical American.

Shell · Post by **Shell** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 2:06 pm

Movies are not really a good way to learn English. I'm not above an occasional naughty word, but if you can't think of anything to say other than the F-bomb every other word, you're in trouble. It's pretty sad the movie industry seems to think a lot of profanity makes a movie better.

The Petra Zone

a silly english question

a silly english question

I hope I`m not freaking out anybody

Brent

that is interesting Brent!

a quick note

Re: that is interesting Brent!

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