question for you music industry insiders

[Tutor_23]

How much revenue does an artist being in strictly from present day sales of his published music of a bygone era? E.g., how much $$ would you think Tom Scholz still brings in for Boston's "More than a Feeling"? Or Journey's "Don't Stop Believing"? Or Petra's "Destiny"?

Assuming any such song is available for purchase via iTunes, how much of the old but popular mucic still being purchased? Obviously, there's incalculable intellectual property theft that undercuts the erstwhile revenues. But do these folks still bring any meaningful income from these older products? I would think that a band that is still touring is going to sell more since they're out there marketing themselves.

Just curious to hear from you insiders since I have no clue how to find out such info.

andy

[rexreed]

I know just a little but can tell you that Destiny never generated the kind of money that DSB and MTF did. Not even close. DSB and MTF continue being licensed for TV shows, ads, and get regular radio play multiple times a day.

[executioner]

Brent is the one to ask about this subject. I know a couple of years back Neal Schon(Journey) said in an interview that "Don't Stop Believing" alone has made him a multimillionare and it has generated about 20% of all revenues for the band and went on to say that he can live as a millionaire on a yearly basis from it. Now where his revenues are exactly coming from who knows, it could be a lot of different avenues.

[brent]

Boy...I have had a long day and am too wiped to give my two cents right now.

Boston, Tom, got nothing IIRC. That was the problem. They were in a bad deal and so thought it better not to release anything until time ran out on the contract. There is an interview with him on the radio show Rock Line, which is available in their archives. Again, IIRC, Tom approached Sony to remix, remaster and re-release the first two records. He was tired of the remastered and anniversary albums sounding like crap. He didn't make much from it.

Journey had good management and good counsel, and they retained the majority rights, I believe. How Journey made their money was from Herbie investing their money so that they would not waste it on drugs and ex-wives, which is exactly what Ross and Neal did. Steve Perry was the only one not to sell out of the band's investment properties, etc. They funded VariLight, the motorized intelligent lighting company, and then rented it out to other artist's tours. They were smart. Steve Perry made them all rich, and was the only one that did not have to work again. They all had to agree how their music was used, and you can see how many times they have agreed. They were all smart in that regard.

Publishing was something artists and management would negotiate for. Some people did not know to negotiate for it. I recall a prominent rock star who sold millions of records giving his away for a leather jacket. Some people just want some cash up front, thinking nothing about the future and longevity. Take Petra for example. Bob owns it all and was able to retire, while John had to keep going, keep playing shows to put food on the table. If the deal is right, and if the artist is selling, and the music lends itself to sporting events, advertising, etc...there could be some money to be had. No two deals are alike, and there is no way to tell who is getting paid or how much.

[rexreed]

Interesting notes Brent. BTW the Herbie in Brent's post is Herbie Herbert, the band manager. He, along with Neal and Gregg Rollie left Santana to form Journey. A few years later it was Herbie who introduced the band to Steve Perry.

The last I heard from Herbie was that he had bought an island and sold most of his memorabila. I'm not sure if that last part is true, but the guy at my local record shop swears that he purchased a lot of the stuff.

[brent]

Here are the general types of royalties and their descriptions.

"Mechanicals" are paid to the copyright owners when they give permission mechanically reproduce music onto media or electronic files for distribution. The music publisher grants permission for the musical composition to be reproduced. The mechanical royalty is paid to the recording artist, songwriter, and publisher based on the number of recordings sold. Sometimes this can be a flat fee for small limited runs for hyper niche markets.

"Performance" rights license allows music to be performed live or broadcast. These are generally "blanket licenses," like what your church might pay to CCLI for using artist's music, lyrics on the video screens, reprinting on paper, etc. The performance royalty is paid to the songwriter and publisher.

"Compulsory" licensing is what an artist pays to cover another copyright protected song without permission.

"Synchronization" is paid a song to be reproduced onto a television program, film, video, commercial, radio, music on hold message, etc. It is called this because you are "synchronizing" the composition, as it is performed on the audio recording, to a film, TV commercial, or spoken voice-over. If a specific recorded version of a composition is used, you must also get permission from the record company in the form of a "master use" license. The synchronization royalty is paid to songwriters and publishers for use of a song used as background music for a movie, TV show, or commercial.

"Print rights" are royalties paid to songwriters and publishers based on sales of printed sheet music.

So generally, song writers and producers are paid royalties. Their royalties are tied to sales, not performance, so they do not make as much as the recording artist, who gets paid royalties on sales, performance (like on the radio, internet, in a club or restaurant jukebox/band,etc).

There are so many ways to make money with music, but most of them do not pay that much. But the artist and management must chase them all, because you never know what can happen. Consider "Don't Stop Believin'" by Journey. If that song were released by another indie band today, nobody would have heard about it, nor would have anyone cared, because the music is tied to the hearts, minds of emotions of a specific generation of people, and it invokes something that no other song could for that generation, at that moment it is celebrating an event. Artists today need to be seeding the future for their "Don't Stop Believin'" and know how to collect the money.

From a recent indie article:

"....If not knowing the business is a challenge for a world-renown artist or hit songwriter, just think of how much harder is it for an unsigned artist! Of course, there are many singers, musicians and songwriters who are happy just playing or writing music as a hobby. But if you are looking at making music your career, here are some reasons why it is important for you to study and be involved in the business side of your career just as much as you are on the performing or songwriting side:

Missed opportunities: You miss out on advances in technology that can make your life simpler. You lose gigs that you would have found online. You lose out on licensing opportunities because you don’t know how to find them and/or submit your music to them. You lose potential endorsement deals because you’re not growing your fanbase with a tangible email list. You get trapped into being just the local bar band even though your talent could take you so much farther.

Leaving money on the table: You may have money waiting for you at Sound Exchange but you don’t know who they are, what they do or why you should register with them. The same goes for the PROs, the Harry Fox, Agency, the musician’s union and even AFTRA. Your fans don’t know how to buy your music because it is not available in the most common online stores.

Lack of credibility: Your peers who run their own music businesses effectively do not take you seriously. Music industry decision makers (record labels, managers etc.) don’t believe you ‘have what it takes’ because of your lack of music business knowledge, or;
You are easily taken advantage of or exploited: I know hit writers who were swindled out of their catalogs. You don’t get paid what you’re worth because your management takes or spends too much. You get into bad deals or sign bad contracts because they look good to you. You make rookie mistakes like paying too much for recording, paying to have your songs published, getting song critiques from non-reputable sources etc. You get taken by a vanity record label.

Failure to communicate: You are left out of high-level industry conversations because you can’t add anything to them or discuss them intelligently. You can’t negotiate the best deals because you don’t have the leverage. You don’t understand what your peers are talking about.
Lost income: You don’t get the best gigs because you don’t know how to pursue them. Your songs aren’t cut because you don’t know how to promote them effectively. Your music isn’t in film and TV because you don’t know how to license them.
Losing money that you earn(ed): You squander away your money. You make bad investments. You get involved financially in deals that are over your head. Your management loses your money for you.

Bad business decisions: You sign bad contracts or management deals. You sign your songs over to a publisher for life. You don’t know how to get out of bad contracts. You hire an attorney who is not familiar with entertainment law to review and negotiate your contracts. You take gigs on which you ultimately lose money. You pay too much for things that shouldn’t cost you much, if anything.
Inability to monitor your business: You don’t know if your manager is taking you for a ride. You don’t know if your publisher is actually working on your behalf. You don’t know how much money you really should have.
Lost relationships: You lose touch with important people because you don’t keep the relationship alive, or have a reason to keep it alive. People you know who are moving ahead don’t take you with them.

Poor team selection: (This is Petra's issue, IMNSHO!) You don’t pick the right managers, business managers, financial advisors, band members etc. This is because you don’t know the right questions to ask, you don’t do your due diligence, or you are just elated that someone wants to come on board with you.

Lost fanbase: Because you don’t keep in communication with your fans, or do it effectively, they forget about you and move on to other artists who do. Your fans don’t know where you’re performing so obviously they don’t follow you. Your fans don’t know that you have a new CD out because you don’t know how to reach them.

No respect: You get a reputation as a talented but lazy person. People love to help others who are working hard to improve themselves. You’re not recognized as someone like that. You’re looked upon as someone who is ‘waiting for his ship to come in’ instead of someone who is building his own ship.
Loss of time: It takes you longer to do things that others who know the industry do automatically. Some examples would be copywriting your songs, organizing and sending an EPK, writing a press release etc.

No advocacy: You don’t know the issues facing the industry so you don’t fight for your own rights.
Depression: You get frustrated because things aren’t moving fast enough for you. You get tired of being taken advantage of. You believe that the world is against you. You believe the music industry is designed to keep you out. You often want to quit the business completely. You resent the fact that you’re stuck in a bar band because you have always dreamed of filling stadiums someday.

Loss of support: Your friends, family and fans who believe wholeheartedly in your talent start doubting your seriousness. They don’t see you treating your career like a business. They become convinced that you should get a ‘real job’ and do music as a hobby.
No legacy: Since no one outside of your local bar ever hears your music, and only your friends, family and local fans have your CDs, you don’t impact the world the way you dreamed you would. And when you’re gone from this world, there is little if any legacy that you leave behind for the world to remember you by.

The bottom line is that, to be successful, you need to be business savvy enough to develop and keep a large enough fan base to support you over the length of your careers.