see? I`m objective!!!!

[Shell]

Thank you Enosh. You can't see me but I am clapping and cheering.

[dez]

Right on, Sam, Shell. Awesome post, Enosh.

Elo, I don�t get frustrated because we disagree. I am well aware that not everyone is going to have the same opinion as me (as unfortunate as that may be ) so I am not at all offended by that. What frustrates me is that you�ve made up your mind based on half the story and aren�t really willing to listen to the other side. I don�t care if you like Bush or not, but I�d like it if you made that decision by looking at the positive as well as the negative and weighing it out. If you have, cool. I�m not judging you here at all. I too have a tendency not to listen to the other side when I�ve made up my mind. I�ve really had to work on it. My co-worker and I have discussions often and about anything. If we disagree, it takes awhile for us both to start listening to the other. There are topics where I�ve seen it his way or he�s seen it mine and others where we just agree to disagree.

I know you don�t condone homosexuality. I would never believe that. My point there was that Michael Moore is not for the homosexual individual any more than those who actively spew venom about and at them. He is part of the agenda.

I, too, wish that the church would get its act together and treat people as people and show them the love of Christ. Not just homosexuals, everyone. People should not see a Christian and be repulsed; they should see Christ in them and be drawn to Him through our lives. I know this is your desire, too. You have an awesome heart, Elo. If we don�t agree on minor issues, no biggie cuz we are still sisters in Christ with a common bond and a common love. I�ve not said any of this to bash you because I don�t wish to hurt you. Love ya.

[executioner]

Enosh,

Everything you said I agree with and been trying to say for the past week now in this thread and others. THANKS A MILLION!

I am sorry if I offended anyone in anyway.

[epdc]

number one, this topic is not about BUSH!!!!!!or KERRY!!!!!! or Moore being disgusting !!!!!!!!!!!!

the reason I started this topic is this:
I felt like you guys saw me as a Michael Moore fan unable to see he has tons of mistakes too. and that`s not true.

when I saw that gay documental he did I wasn`t agree in many things he said, I didn`t like the documental he did, he couldn`t reach the goal he wanted to reach. So I wrote him.

I showed you the letter for you guys could see that I`m not a Moore fan, that I also recognize he does HUGE mistakes too.

THAT WAS THE WHOLE POINT OF THIS TOPIC!!!!if you wanna talk about kerry and bush get your own topic

[epdc]

when I have talked about Bush you guys understand I have talked about BUSH and not about my dear brothers and sisters petheads from the USA right? because if I have had upset you in any way I apologyze

[Enosh]

Elo,

First off, I am not upset with you girl. What I see is that you are a concerned person wanting the best and reaching out to Michael Moore. Here's the only problem. You are approching him from the standpoint that he is coming from a pure heart. That he is just trying to help people and that he made a mistake in the way he presented it. What DEZ was pointing out, (correct me if I'm wrong DEZ) is that Moore knows what he is doing. He isn't trying to get homosexuals respect, or fair treatment. He is trying to eliminate the Christian princibles we believe by making Christians out to be bigots who all hate gays. He has an agenda, not a morale stand.

Moore presents things that sound as though he cares, but the reason he goes and does some of the things you pointed out ELO is because he really doesn't care. Like in his movie Bowling for Columbine. He painted this picture like he really cares about the people who died, but he exploited those people to push his agenda to outlaw guns, and make gun owners look stupid and ignorant. I don't own one personally, but I believe that people have the right to own one. It's who has the guns that gets people killed. Nationally, gun owners are responsible people, but you wouldn't know that by watching Moore's movie. You would think that smart people don't like guns, and the people who do are uneducated, hicks who just shoot at everything. Again it's part of Moore's agenda. Don't be fooled.

Enosh

[LexingtonPethead]

I can't resist this one. Enosh, you are a GREAT American!! I know you tend to stay away from political threads, but man, you rock!!

[Enosh]

Thanks man. It's good to see people that have a good head on their shoulders. You know, I have often thought of one day running for some kind of political office. What do you guys think? A pethead in office!! haha Somebody's got to stand up to the garbage we face in Michigan. It amazes me because I talked with the dad of an old friend last month at the store. I hadn't seen him in over 12 years! The first thing he wanted to talk about was the elction and the war. He spouted all the reasons Bush was wrong on this issue and that. I listened and then politely replied, "You know, nobody's going to be perfect, but I'm better off than I was four years ago." He looked at me and said, "I hadn't thought about that before. My wife and I are way better off than we were four years ago." Many times we lose touch of reality in the moment of complaints of everything that is bad. I am an optomist personally. Let's talk about some good things and find answers and solutions to the bad. Whatever you do, don't let your frustrations carry you away. It's when we throw our hands up and commit to defeat that we are beaten.

[epdc]

Enosh, you made a very good statement it really left me thinking, specially the fact that you live in Flint, I alwayds wanted to ask you about that but always forgot.

if you made your comments about the gay documental because you saw it, I gotta say you showed a pretty interesting perspective, I never saw it that way.

BUT if you never ever saw that documental I`m talking about, then you are just judging someone`s work without even watch it.

ya know guys, is obvious we have different opinions about this topic, why we just let is rest ok??? what`s the point of arguing this anyway? nobody will convince anyone .

I have also thought that Moore is an mmmm oportunist??? does that word exists in english'?? well, I mean that he makes scandal and gets money for it ya know but I also gotta say that there`s some truth in what he says. it would be stupid to think that he is lying 100%. I have no doubts he manipulates information (all the News does!) but I know that some of the stuff he says are true, NOT ALL OF IT but some stuff.

I "assumed" Moore was trying to do something for helping the gay community not because I thought "awwww he is trying to do something!!", I wasn`t that naive, I also considered the idea of him just wanting to make an scandal. But I also thought in the option of him showing the extremes the gay hate can come. though, i gotta say, he used the scandal element for his movie, and that`s the thing I didn`t like.
I didn`t see him trying to make christians look bad, the pastor he was talking about is a pastor who goes to gay funerals (when a gay dies and stuff) and starts preaching about hell, in a very mean way. I think he showed how ignorant people can be.

I just decide to tell him what I thought he should do in the nicest way, (like don`t filming gays naked and stuff), I tried to make a constructive criticism because if you get all upset and mean on an email there`s a less posibilitie that the other person understands what you mean. Maybe he payed attention in what I said, maybe not, but I wanted to give a shot anyways.


you can`t be Manichaeism, there are not good guys and bad guys. there are only human beings. Moore is not the bad guy and Bush is not the good guy. Both are humans who I`m sure say true but also lie.

OHHHHHHH let`s stop arguing!!!! nobody will convince anyone anyways.