Album sales as of February 2004

[brent]

Amy Grant 24 million
Kirk Franklin 13 million
Sandi Patty 11 million
CeCe Winans 11 million
Michael W. Smith 10 million
Steven Curtis Chapman 9 million
Point of Grace 8 million
P.O.D. 7 million
Jars of Clay 6 million
dc talk 6 million
Jaci Velasquez 5 million
Newsboys 4 million
Third Day 4 million
Bob Carlisle 4 million

[brent]

They are wealthy, that's what I make of it. Those numbers are career totals as of Feb04. Some people are making money from licensing, publishing, etc without having to perform, record, run the rat race, etc. That's great. They can spend time with God, with their families, etc. I hope they do that anyway.

Those were a cross section from each radio format/genre of CCM.

[executioner]

Brent,

Where is Petra on that list? They have sold over 7 million copies. Stryper has also sold over 10 million. Your list is inaccurate or incomplete.

[brent]

Those were a cross section from each radio format/genre of CCM.

Since the list was assembled for GMA 04 to 05 marketing, they are only going to list people currently charting during that time.

[executioner]

That is like saying Petra and Stryper never sold those amounts, which is wrong. I am ashamed of CCM. That is why the majority of the music I listen to is secular; At least I know what they believe. You all remember what the Bible teaches us about lukewarm?

[brent]

Ex. Nobody is denying anything. There are MANY more artists not represented. Again, this is merely a cross section of the most popular artists over time, that have music on the radio, in movies, TV, etc. It is not saying that Petra or Stryper never sold those records. Come on. Take it for what it is.

Face it, Petra and Stryper are not the mainstream anymore.

Here is a cross-section of the GMA customer base in the US:

Top US Sales markets in order:
1. LA
2. NY
3. Chicago
4. Atlanta
5. Dallas/Ft. Worth
6. Wash DC
7. Philli
8. Houston
9. Columbus
10. Seatlle/Tacoma

Top US Sales regions:
1. South Adlantic 22.74%
2. South Central 20.29%
3. Pacific 13.02% + Mountain 6.03%
4. East North Central 17.68%
5. Mid Atlantic 9.57%
6. West North Central 7.8%
7. Northeast 2.87%

US Consumer Base:
� 30% more likely to be between the ages of 18-44
� 22% more likely to be female
� 35% more likely to be married
� 45% more likely to have ?nished college and 65% more
likely to have ?nished graduate school
� 51% more likely to live in a household of 4 or more
� 47% more likely to have a household income over
$100K
� 26% more likely to look for a brand name, while they
are 10% more likely to pay more for quality goods

[LexingtonPethead]

That is like saying Petra and Stryper never sold those amounts, which is wrong. I am ashamed of CCM. That is why the majority of the music I listen to is secular; At least I know what they believe. You all remember what the Bible teaches us about lukewarm?

I see your point, Exe, but I don't agree that this is any reason to listen to secular music. Sounds more like an excuse.

[executioner]

No, it's not an excuse. I really can't stand most of the so called CCM artists today because they have no depth in Christian morals. I listen to secular music to listen to the music; I could care less what their singing about, but I listen to CCM to get encouraged, to get support, to get fellowship, to get all the things that God wants for us. It is very hard to find that today in CCM. In my opinion most CCM artists see it as a business and not as a ministry and that is WRONG! There are a few good artists that I like (Jonah33, Skillet) are a couple, but for the most part if I listen to CCM it's stuff from the 80's and early 90's.

[brent]

No, it's not an excuse. I really can't stand most of the so called CCM artists today because they have no depth in Christian morals. I listen to secular music to listen to the music; I could care less what their singing about, but I listen to CCM to get encouraged, to get support, to get fellowship, to get all the things that God wants for us. It is very hard to find that today in CCM. In my opinion most CCM artists see it as a business and not as a ministry and that is WRONG! There are a few good artists that I like (Jonah33, Skillet) are a couple, but for the most part if I listen to CCM it's stuff from the 80's and early 90's.

What does "No, it's not an excuse" mean?

I agree about many artists not living the walk that they sell. But it is no different than you or I. We sell a damage bill of goods so to speak to people around us. The difference is, they are making a living at it.

The reasons that you gave for listening to music should be found in a good, solid, fruitful relationship with God, and active service in/with the local church, not music. Too many people are asking something from a man-made commodity (CCM) that is going to leave you wanting more every time, because they have no real relationship with God, and music and the performers are idols to them. I am not saying that this is true for you.

The reason that any artist/band turns into a business is because they are recording it, mass producing it, selling it, touring, paying taxes, incorporating, operating under the laws that govern us. Trust me, I don't care who your fav's are, if they are involved in commerce, there is an unescapable business side for them. Truth be told, most of them hate it. If you look at music history, it is also what takes the wind out of the sails of creative genious. Otherwise, if it were true ministry, they would give it away for free. No artist, band, preacher, missionary, you or I should do a work and be left empty handed. That is not scriptural either.

Remember, the record company, radio programmers, the retailers, the management, the booking agents, attorneys, marketing people, etc all got a cut of these people's revenues, because that is what it takes to get the product to the masses. So, it isn't like these artists are hording it all to themselves. Besides that, we don't know who they donate to, who they tithe to, etc, etc.

I know of some VERY big CEO's that develop businesses, etc in foreign countries and ours, to support missions. They will set up a circus in China and take all of the profits and fund missions in that country. Very smart. But you don't know it is happening. The same can be said of both secular and Christian artists. I know of some great works by both.

There is othing wrong or unscriptural about wealth. It is the love of it that is wrong. If people were not wealthy, there would be nobody to help out those less fortunate (which is scriptural). There would be no St. Judes hospital for children, etc. Wealth and having money are two different things.

Christian artists are people. All people can be jerks and greedy. I have experienced this first hand. It is a sad day when secular artists/musicians are more willing to lend a talent to a Christian record than Christian people are. Maybe it is a result of the smaller niche maket, so they can't waste any of their time. I don't know. All I know is that the secular people view it as a way to give back to a good cause. That is something that Christian artists with a wrong view could learn from.

[executioner]

Brent,

I get all those things that you talk about, but when I listen to CCM I expect those things also; If I can't get those things than I won't listen to that particular artist. CCM SUCKS ministry wise and ministry should come first. It should NEVER be business first and ministry second. When I think of the current state of CCM I think of those merchants at the temple and we know what Jesus did with them. It is clearly the same thing. I understand that business has to be a part of it, but it should never be first and foremost, and that is all what CCM is about today. Brent you seem to always talk about the business side of things in CCM, but never the heart is there a reason?

[brent]

Brent,

I get all those things that you talk about, but when I listen to CCM I expect those things also; If I can't get those things than I won't listen to that particular artist. CCM SUCKS ministry wise and ministry should come first. It should NEVER be business first and ministry second. When I think of the current state of CCM I think of those merchants at the temple and we know what Jesus did with them. It is clearly the same thing. I understand that business has to be a part of it, but it should never be first and foremost, and that is all what CCM is about today. Brent you seem to always talk about the business side of things in CCM, but never the heart is there a reason?

I see what you are saying. The CCM industry is not a para church organization. It is not essential to church existance. Without it, we would still have music, probably better music, in our homes, churches, etc. The people that play would still, whether they were signed or not, if they have true hearts/intentions. I don't think that it should necessarilly be the arm of ministry. WE should be. Although I do think that it is good for planting some seeds.

I liken it all to the Christian book industry. We don't really need any of it. We have scripture. To me, the line for selling books about Christ, scripture, etc is fuzzy. I can justify concordenances and books that help relay the historical implications and explain languages to better understand, etc. But selling Christian self help books and testimonials, etc is where I really have to research their value to me.

The heart of it: Honestly, I own no "praise and worship" music as it is called. Unless I screwed up reading scripture, everything we do should be that, so to have a specific name for that music is odd. To have a church song service broken up into two sgements "praise" and "worship" is even more odd. What I do own is music that instrumentally stimulates my mind and central nervous system. This music is Christian and secular. Personally, as long as the lyrics are not vulgar, they make sense, and I can relate to it, then I will listen to it. There are good things to be said that are not "Christian" topics. There are stories to be told that are not "Christian". I take it for what it is, understanding that the lyrics are either meaningless jabber, or a thought that someone has had. I then learn from people, where they are at, how they think, how they feel, etc. It doesn't run my life. Now, if I could find a Christian Prog Rock band, like the caliber of Dream Theater, Rush, etc. I would be in serious nirvana! Personally, I do not listen to the Christian lyrics as much as the secular when I do listen to them.

The people with the heart for CCM are the fans and some of the artists, and maybe all of them when they start out. But in time, it is about the jack, because they have to keep the wheel turning to keep paying the bills since they no longer have their real jobs, and little chance of starting a career after they have exhausted their musical stay in the market.

To me, it is silly to make music and sell it to the church. The church should be the biggest wealth of music because we should be so alive and thankful, to the point that it is all you desire. But since we dipped our toes into the world's toilet of musical styles, stuck our heads in the sands neglecting to affect the lifestyles of the outside world, we get what we gave. CCM was not originally for the church, it was for the saved hippie. Now it is a mainstay and inwardly minded in the church

I am for leaving CCM behind personally, just for the reason that you stated. CCM sucks! Well, you said sucks for ministry. That too! I am more evangelistic in my goals. Instead of fulfilling my personal desire, I am going to focus on evloving music with worldly topics with Christian solutions. Since the lost have their hearts centered on filling the whole in their soul, that only the Creator, our Dad can fill, I want to give them something to plant a seed in their heart. I won't be the reaper. I will be the sower. Then I am going to pray that God sends someone into their life to complete the work, so that His Word will not return void.

[Shell]

CCM lost its heart when CD sales became the first priority as far as I'm concerned.

[Historymaker]

Hey Brent...

Are you headed to GMA this year?

[brent]

Thinkin' about it. Are you?

Cool site BTW!

[executioner]

That was a good read Brent, thank you for that. That is why I am such a big Petra fan; You can always see the heart in the music/lyrics. That is where CCM needs to be; If it's not there than I don't want any part of it.