question on live recording...

[executioner]

Yes I agree with everything you said Preacher, but a lot of us have changed our attitude after being lifetime John Petra fans. I have pulled my head in myself to embrace this new path for Petra. I think we could all be more constructive on here in respect to classic.

If everyone creates their own boards, then they will not be free speech unlike the zone... I only delete a comments when requested.

I have been on here a decade too, and in the last 12 months there has been a lot of change, humans by nature hate change.. but I think a lot of people are warming up to the idea of Classic Petra lineup.

If someone can't handle free speech then it would be best to go to another board, where it is controlled.

I was sad to read the negative comment about the TBN taping, what am I supposed to do delete them?? if not on the zone they will appear somewhere else...

I think the admins have done a great job of staying out of the way; the last thing we need is a police state like what they have over there at stryperforum.com. If it comes to that I won't be around.

[Preacherman777]

Trashing of certain members? When has this happened?

I was referring to Greg and it's happened a lot.

Daniel,
I think the effort to create an alternative board is not a threat to the Zone. You have done fine with letting people have their say and I commend you for that. Any alternative board is just going to be sideline thing for those who want to have a place where they can hang out with other people who think like they do. Same reason we have denominations in Christianity. Not saying it's the best thing. It would be great if we could all be of one accord like we're suppose to be, but that don't seem to happen, so people will do what they will do. Most of the people will stay here and especially those who are not so fond of the new incarnation of Petra. I really don't think it's a matter of competition, just a matter of some people needing a place to get away and be refreshed.

[Timbo]

Ya, when were any of the classic members trashed? This goes back to when I was accused of hating Greg Volz because I said I prefer the Farewell Petra line up. Just because some of us prefer John as the front man doesn't mean we hate anyone else.

[Dan]

I wasn't saying another board is a threat, I am all for it if it means the Petheads here can talk openly in peace, without having to contend with some peoples sensitivity.

Anyway we will have new mods soon so I don't have to manage this off the topic rubbish anymore.

[Preacherman777]

Daniel,
I wasn't trying to say anything against you. Like I said, I think you are doing fine. I was just trying to offer an explanation for why some people feel the need to do that. I think most of those people (including me) still wish to be part of the Zone as well. I know, most people think we are just a bunch of folks who are too sensitive, but there is also the possibility that some folks are a bit too insensitive. It can work both ways and if we really want to be constructive, as Christians we called to consider others better than ourselves. It's hard to do that if we are mocking them.

[curt]

I can see that there has been quite a lot of discussion about the things DeSoto and I wrote. I’d like to make a few comments since this discussion has reached a level that I think is very much out of touch with reality.

First of all I was expressing my own oppionion and stressing that others could be perfectly right in having other opinions. After all, it’s music, it’s a matter of taste. I don’t quite see how expressing my oppinion should cause anyone to leave the zone. If they believe I’m wrong, why don’t they try to convince me? Or at least they can ignore me. I don’t really see the fairness in leaving because we don’t all agree.

They are only humans, not gods
When a subject like this gets so sensitive I think it is fair to ask whether people have understood that they guys of Petra are just humans. They are not gods (and I feel obliged to stres this due to a few of the remarks I’ve recieved).

Criticizing the music the play, the way they perform, claiming that the latter years the music was absolutely not the same quality as in the early years, that has got nothing to do with being disrespectful of God. It’s not even being disrespectful of Petra, it’s just claiming they did stuff that was not as good as what they had done earlier. Even claiming some of it was bad is not disrepectful in my oppinion.

Don't forget how good they were
People forget how good they once were because they are so concerned about not being critical. It doesn’t make sence. I mean honestly compare the 2 guys to Unseen Power, Beyond Belief, Captured in Time and Space etc. I don’t see how you can honestly claim, the 2 guys were as good or even close to Petra at its prime. The same goes for Double Take or the Petra performances after 95. I honestly don’t see how anyone can claim this is Petra-quality, but I respect other oppinions. Once again I just wish to stress that these guys are musicians, humans, and the music they play is not above criticism. I sometimes fear fans are fans in an unhealthy way.

Playing for the fans that will always be fans
When someone claims “I will always be a fan of Petra” perhaps this stresses my point in an interesting way. After 95 Petra toured for the people who would go no matter what. Not because of any of the recent stuff, not because Pete Orta was a good guitar player (which he really wasn’t), not because it was what it once was, but because, after all, it was Petra. Again this is my understanding of what happened those years, I don’t expect all of you to agree. If you really like the stuff they did those years, then my oppionen should be of no concern to you.

Some of you say it’s too early to say whether Classic Petra will be a succes. You’re absolutely right.

And finally: I hope it’s ok to express one’s oppinion, even when it’s critical. Actually I thougt that was one of the main points with internet forums. I read others oppinions with great interest.

[Preacherman777]

This is actually missing the point because it assumes that all of this started over what a couple people said on this thread. The roots of these issues go way beyond and way before that and of all things are not based on someone expressing their opinion. There's way more to it than that and it involves a whole bunch of unChristlike behavior both toward the band (especially Greg) and also towards some members of the community.

[Timbo]

Couldn't have said it better myself Curt. PERSPECTIVE PEOPLE! WE ARE TALKING ABOUT OUR LIKES AND DISLIKES OF A ROCK BAND! Can we not express our opinions about Petra without our relationship with Christ being called into question? I have tryed to reconcile, but you have taken this to far preacherman.

[Jan]

it involves a whole bunch of unChristlike behavior both toward the band (especially Greg) .

I don't get frustrated very easily. Really. But you keep saying things like this, over and over. WHERE are the comments about Greg? Please quote them. I thought I read everything....but I am just not finding this. Surely you're not talking about things like whether he should wear his shirt untucked or not, and hairstyle comments, and so on. That would just be silly to call comments like that unChristlike behavior.

[bakersfieldpethead]

I think I see what Preacherman is saying. What are people going to say about a band that has fans who argue about everything and get mad at each other all the time.

I face this as a Raider fan also. Someone finds out I'm a Raider fan and they tell some story about a little girl or boy or someone getting hurt or something by drunk Raider fans in oakland durnig a game and ask how I could support a team like that. Well the team didn't do that, it's those fans choice to do what they did and it wasn't right, however it reflected the team to others that were not Raider fans and one assumed that if those fans were like that, then all Raider fans must be like that. But it's not true, I'm not like that, my family and friends are not like that.

If we can't conduct ourselves as Christians then us being Petheads and trying to support our favorite band isn't going to sell well with those that are not petheads, or those petheads that don't know about the zone. No one is saying that you don't have a right to your opinion, and no one says you don't have passion about Petra, but what we do here reflects you and everyone on this board. What would you do if you were a sinner and you saw a preacher fight with everyone and then try to tell them to come to his Church for the answer. We are doing the same thing pretty much, we're fighting with each other all the time and insulting each other all the time because in reality none of us really respect the others opinion regarless of what we say, we just don't agree and we find our own littles ways of disrespecting that at the same time of defending our own.

Chill Out People! Petra is a ministry, Petra is a Christian Band and if we want to represent them, then we must act like we do.

and no we're not talking about Greg's T-shirt

[curt]

I still fail to see how a disagrement on whether some music a band made was good or bad, which period was best, when they should have stopped, whether they should have gathered as Classic Petra or not should say anything about christianity. My points concerned the music and the band that consists of humans. Please don't mix this up with a religious debate. Are christians not allowed to disagree about whether a record or a concert was good or bad if it was by a christian band?

I know the argument saying that Petra is ministry and it doesn't matter who's in the band and so on. I don't agree. If that was right there would be no point in listening to Petra instead of any other ministering band. Of course the music counts.

[Preacherman777]

WHERE are the comments about Greg? Please quote them. I thought I read everything....but I am just not finding this.

Sorry, but it's not my job to do this. I've been here, I've been engaged with the forum and I know what I've seen. The comments have been there, whether you caught them or not. If you really want to know, do the searching yourself. Telling me I have to do it for you is just lazy. It's like trying to claim something on a tv show didn't happen just cuz you missed the episode or episodes where it happened. If you want to be engaged and informed, do your own homework.

[bakersfieldpethead]

I still fail to see how a disagrement on whether some music a band made was good or bad, which period was best, when they should have stopped, whether they should have gathered as Classic Petra or not should say anything about christianity. My points concerned the music and the band that consists of humans. Please don't mix this up with a religious debate. Are christians not allowed to disagree about whether a record or a concert was good or bad if it was by a christian band?

I know the argument saying that Petra is ministry and it doesn't matter who's in the band and so on. I don't agree. If that was right there would be no point in listening to Petra instead of any other ministering band. Of course the music counts.

Ok, You're picken opinion doesn't matter and I can care less how you feel about it.
Now was that a responce that Christians should be making?
No it's not, however that is how we are presenting oursleves
Some may not be able to see that, but there are those who choose not to see that. So take your pick, I'm not your judge, however I hate to see this board and others be labled something just because people can't keep their cool.

I said nothing about your opinion on the topics, it's how we talk about our opinions and how we talk to others about their opinions that is the issue. What people like and dislike about Petra isn't the issue. We're all guilty and need to cool our jets on this board because it's leaving a bad taste in other peoples mouth.

[Preacherman777]

I have tryed to reconcile, but you have taken this to far preacherman.

If you're going to throw away the progress I thought we made on the other thread because of something you found here that was already addressed between us on the other thread, then I guess this has been a waste of time. You apologized over there. You either meant it or you didn't and if you did, there was reason for it, so don't pretend it doesn't exist just because you have added support over here.

[Preacherman777]

it's how we talk about our opinions and how we talk to others about their opinions that is the issue.

AMEN! This is exactly what I've been trying to say.