The Noise We Make: Question

[brent]

That would be onehelluvah double album IMO. At first I thought No Doubt was a huge TURD. But, now it is meaningful to me. Wake Up call to me was a good, mature, Petra record.

[executioner]

To me there's not much difference between No Doubt and Wake Up Call. They are like disc 1 and disc 2 of a double album.

These 2 albums couldn't be anymore different from each other. The production quality is so far superior on WUC, I can't believe anyone would compare the 2.

[separateunion]

To me there's not much difference between No Doubt and Wake Up Call. They are like disc 1 and disc 2 of a double album.

These 2 albums couldn't be anymore different from each other. The production quality is so far superior on WUC, I can't believe anyone would compare the 2.

Production value doesn't cover up weak songs. WUC was one of Petra's weakest albums. No Doubt rocked harder overall than WUC.

[CatNamedManny]

I've said it before, I'll say it again: Combine the best songs off WUC and ND and you'd have one awesome album. As it is, you have two flawed albums, albeit one that is very well produced and one that is very poorly produced.

[knotodiswrld]

I just can't agree that ND was all that horrible. I mean, it wasn't their best by any means, but it was fairly good. It had a few great songs; "Enter In", "Heart of a Hero", and "Two Are Better Than One". It is true that the quality was not up to previous Petra albums, but the reason for that was clear and simple.

Bob ... wasn't ... on ... it!!!

In fact, I'm not sure it even counts as a "Petra" album. I mean ... no Bob! Without Bob ... is it really Petra? I mean, Petra without Bob is like ... like ....

Like a band without a drummer
Petra without Bob
Like a year without a summer
Petra without Bob
Like a king without a country
Like a room without a view
Like an empty gun
Like a fatherless son
Petra without Bob

Like a ship without a rudder
Petra without Bob
Like a child without it's mother
Petra without Bob
Like a story with no ending
Like a foot without a shoe
Like a wasted feast
Like a faithless priest
Petra without Bob

Chorus:

Petra without Bob
A pitiful sight
Petra without Bob
It ain't never gonna feel right

Like a war without an enemy
Petra without Bob
A disease without a remedy
Petra without Bob
Like a crime without a victim
Like a sleuth without a clue
Like an empty gun
Like a fatherless son
Petra without Bob

Modified from "Me Without You" as sung by Rebecca St. James on "God"

As for "Wake Up Call", it seems people either love it or hate it. I really, really liked it, though not as much as I liked "This Means War", "On Fire", or "Jekyll and Hyde". All in all, musically it was probably Petra's best line up. However, I felt a some of the songs were a little weak. On the other hand, "Underneath The Blood" comes very, very close to making up for them all.

As far as "Revival", I listened to a little of it in the store when it first came out and decided not to buy it. I just didn't care for it at all.

[fcollazo]

Bob played all the guitars in ND. David Lychens did not play a single lick. He just started the tour and did the photo shoots. What I would say is that ND was over-produced, not poorly produced.

[pmal]

Y'all are missing out on not listening to Revival. It does sound a little Sonic Floodish but for the most part the guitar work is excellent sounding and heavier than anything Sonic Flood would ever do. I knew that was the case when a co-worker who likes the soft stuff said the guitars were too loud. LOL! I literally laughed at them. Plus, John's multi-octive voice overlays is something Jeff Deyo could only dream of pulling off. If you like the songs on the album in the first place and you want a Petra version of them, Revival is your ticket!

[knotodiswrld]

Bob played all the guitars in ND. David Lychens did not play a single lick.

Really? I hate when bands do that. There ought to be a rule that if you weren't on the album you can't be on the tour. My "Libertarian" side doesn't want the FCC to make such a rule, but if all the record companies could agree privately on something like that, it would be a good start.

But how emotionally invested can you be in an album when you know you're not going on tour for it? I wonder if it still didn't have an effect.

What I would say is that ND was over-produced, not poorly produced.

I would say that would be one way to look at it. Others might say that "over-produced" is "poorly produced". But I see what you're saying.

[brent]

Lichens....pass

[bakersfieldpethead]

I hate when bands do that. There ought to be a rule that if you weren't on the album you can't be on the tour

hmmm.....well then that would mean Louie would not have been on any Petra tours from 1982-1988 and again from 1990-1992 and maybe not even 1995-1997.

But how emotionally invested can you be in an album when you know you're not going on tour for it? I wonder if it still didn't have an effect.

The desire and effort of a musician and songwriter to produce an album isn't always based on if you are going to tour it. The Beatles quit touring because the fans were so loud and they couldn't re-produce on stage what they were doing in the studio. So the fact that Bob wasn't touring the album had nothing to do with it, He went off the road to be there for his Family, not because He wasn't through making music. They went back to the E-brothers for No Doubt after they had one of the best producers in the industry Brown Banister. No Doubt had some good tracks and made some hits, the musicians were awesome on the album but the mix, the production coming from the ears of the tracking engineer, the mixing engineer, the mastering tech, mic selections, pre-amps etc.....it just wasn't there like it was with Wake-Up Call.

[brent]

Y'all are missing out on not listening to Revival. It does sound a little Sonic Floodish but for the most part the guitar work is excellent sounding and heavier than anything Sonic Flood would ever do. I knew that was the case when a co-worker who likes the soft stuff said the guitars were too loud. LOL! I literally laughed at them. Plus, John's multi-octive voice overlays is something Jeff Deyo could only dream of pulling off. If you like the songs on the album in the first place and you want a Petra version of them, Revival is your ticket!

This album should have been called, "Petra's Tribute to Sonic Flood" then. It is NOT a Petra record. There was no evolution to this. You can generally listen to the Volz records through the E brothers records and hear some type of evolution...progression. There is some continuity through the change. When you get beyond the E brothers albums, it becomes a crap shoot. I picture record company people handing out little surveys to the wrong focus groups and a bean counter nerd coming into the office to tell Bob and John what to do. It isn't completely like this, but the bands ARE influenced, so that a marketable wrapper is put on the music to make it sell. Those last records, aside from J&H, were like Inpoop was goin' fishin with a canon, shootin' at ideas, none of them FITTING. They might have made some good music, but it did not FIT, no matter how the band spun it or how much some of them liked it. The setlists of all of the Petra and 2-Guys shows are telling.

That is my last opinion. Your mileage may vary. I hope it does. Someone needs to buy the overstock sittin in someone's garage.

[knotodiswrld]

hmmm.....well then that would mean Louie would not have been on any Petra tours from 1982-1988 and again from 1990-1992 and maybe not even 1995-1997.

Then Louie should have gotten his hinney over to the studio, shouldn't he? You know, I'm starting to see John's side of "The Incident" more and more. Don't get me wrong. I wouldn't want to take a side between two people I admired so much. I'm just starting to understand John's perspective a little better.


But about the whole idea of a band not having the same line-up on an album as they do on tour. It seems wrong to me. It seems like misrepresentation. It seems like false advertising. If you read the cassette/album/CD cover of "Beat The System", which was released between 1982 and 1988, it specifically says that Louie is the drummer for Petra.

But if he wasn't the actual studio drummer for the recording, then that wasn't entirely true at the time, was it? If someone buys the CD, listens to it, and says, "I'd like to hear that band in concert," and then goes out and buys a ticket based on what they heard on the CD, then they have based their decision on misinformation and misrepresentation believing Louie to be the drummer they hear on the CD and looking forward to hearing him in concert.

You see the problem? The CD represents the drumming on the CD as being Louie's drumming when, if what you say is true, it is not. If a drug company or insurance company misrepresented their product this way, they would be charged with "fraud" or at least "false advertising" and serious legal consequences would occur. Why do musical acts get away with it?

I realize it may be "common practice". But that doesn't make it right. It is misrepresentation, and the music industry needs to put a stop to it. It approaches being "fraud", and even my Libertarian side is starting to be okay with some government regulations to stop it.

it just wasn't there like it was with Wake-Up Call.

I don't think there's any question that WUC sounds better over all than ND. I just don't think ND is all that horrible.

[knotodiswrld]

I should also mention that No Doubt had that cool Stereographic (i.e. "magic eye"") insert in the CD. WUC didn't have that, now did it?

[sickasadog]

Has anybody here ever question yourselves about what the heck does an excited moaning Hindu or Pakistani woman, has to do with Christ or the Gospel?

Never did this thought remotely come to mind. Have you ever asked yourself why you thought this while listening to the song? From what I know, the first Christians sang something closer to this style than anything we consider Christian music today.

My first thought when I heard this is that Petra were paying homage to what was considered singing praise in Jesus' time. They weren't singing Amy Grant and Michael W. Smith songs back then, after all.

[brent]

There are LOOOOOTS of bands that have albums sans members playing on them. This is very common.

Louie played loops and over-dubbed. Louie just didn't play what he wanted to play completely. He augmented progeammed drums and in many cases did not play at all. Sometimes it was out of necessity, convenience and budgetary needs. Bands often have songs produced for them while touring.

As far as Louie showing up to the studio...who said that he did not want to? Who said that he did not want to rehearse? Do you think Louie WANTED to do anything other than Petra? Do you think he wanted to hold down multiple jobs between gigs? Louie was not an equal partner in Petra. He was hired gun. While John and Bob were able to leverage assets and future royalties to secure funds to live, the other guys could not. So, when there was no pay, there was no play. There have been numerous discussions about this. I have heard three sides of this story and two line up, so I know whom I believe in.

Lets not assume that Louie was in total control of his own destiny.