Classic Petra Web Site Updated

[Preacherman777]

I have to agree with Bakes on this one. It's not our job to be Petra's lawyers based on our assumptions about what they are doing. We are the fans, it's our job to support Petra in all it's various forms. It's understandable, I think, why some people feel that some others have been hypercritical of Classic Petra, especially in light of certain perceived conflicts of interest. Now there are some things that get said, that really don't need to be said about that, but there are also criticisms made that really make it appear that some are on a bit of witch hunt. On the one hand, I would say, don't try to do a job that's not yours and that you don't really understand because your not involved and on the other hand, I would say, let's do our best to temper our speech with grace for one another.

[Preacherman777]

I asked Dean about the discussion taking place here and here is what he said.

While I did not write the text in question, it should be assumed to be cumulative (career). In that context, I am okay with 'rise to multi-platinum status'. In that context, it's an accurate statement. Hope that helps!

[executioner]

I asked Dean about the discussion taking place here and here is what he said.

While I did not write the text in question, it should be assumed to be cumulative (career). In that context, I am okay with 'rise to multi-platinum status'. In that context, it's an accurate statement. Hope that helps!

That's the problem right there, its should be "assumed" on our part that's what they meant when in reality all they had to do from the beginning was be crystal clear. Assumptions lead to grey areas and misunderstandings; why not put it in black or white terms and leave it at that?

[Preacherman777]

Well, since Dean didn't write it and we don't know who did, that would have to be a question for someone else.

[pmal]

pmal, the bob zone logo! That made my day man

Thanks! Still laughing myself

[executioner]

Well, since Dean didn't write it and we don't know who did, that would have to be a question for someone else.

It's laughable because not even a spokesman for the band fully knows what was meant; he is just assuming.

[Preacherman777]

No, he didn't say he was assuming, he said, it should be assumed. It other words, here is how you should understand it.

[Preacherman777]

Just to let everyone know, since I brought the matter to Dean's attention, he agreed it was a bit confusing so he edited that part of the history to say something more clear. Hopefully this will put everyone's minds at ease.

[BForm]

First of all, I want to ask Sue to forgive me for doing the very thing I accused her of. Sue, I should have confronted you via private email first rather than raise an accusation publicly. I appreciate all the work you do to help John and keep him alive and kicking in CCM. TGC is pure pleasure every time I listen to it.

Second, kudos to you Preacherman for doing the right thing, and confronting the source. Maybe if we'd go to them with our concerns first we'd see some real action rather than raising the BP's of all us aging Petheads.

Finally, I want to clarify what I said about the site containing nostalgia. Nowhere did I mean to say that the website should look like a 1980's brochure yellowed from aging. I'm merely stating that the website needs to establish a connection with the past to draw older fans in.

Let's be honest, we're all nuts. We eat, sleep and breath Petra, but nobody is going to make a living off of us. As I said before, they need to find a way to connect with disconnected fans and create a desire to reconnect with their past. There are ways to do this without making the site look like out of date technology. And yes, you can use old designs and old photos in moderation. I've been in marketing all my life and I'm convince the way to whatever level of success is possible for Classic Petra, is to make fans say "Oh yeah, I remember them", and long to hear them one more time. If you think that's rediculous......oh well.

Peace.

[adpetrafan]

This is going to be a long post, but I hope you take the time to read it all.

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If you look at the original quote it NEVER says anything about Platinum albums. It says multi-platinum status.

One could argue (as some already have here) that Petra did technically meet the numbers required to call specific albums “platinum” but because most CCM sales back in that time period occurred in Christian bookstores where SoundScan was not used (see below), it is nearly impossible to provide proof.

I decide to spend a little time doing some research and I believe there is plenty of information to back up the claim that the band, both as a whole, and as the group currently reunited as Classic Petra, to claim they have reach multi-platinum status.

FYI, platinum means selling one million records.

Here is what I found in a few quick internet searches.

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From http://www.enotes.com/topic/John_Elefante :

"With John and Dino as the band’s primary producers, Petra went on to become one of the most popular bands in the genre. Their accolades include multiple gold and platinum albums, 10 consecutive CCM Magazine Reader’s Choice Awards, induction into the Gospel Music Hall of Fame and Hard Rock Cafe, and the only artist to ever have 4 albums in the SoundScan top-100 Christian chart."
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KEY PART: “multiple gold and platinum albums”
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From http://www.guidetopetra.com/news.html?Post_Type=B :

"The band has impacted generations of musicians and fans alike over the years with over seven million CDs sold..."
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KEY PART: “over seven million CDs sold”
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From http://www.christianbook.com/html/authors/4521.html :

"Very few artists in the relatively short history of contemporary Christian music have developed the unique blend of commercial viability and ministerial integrity that results in over seven million records sold, dozens of awards from both the Christian and mainstream music industries and the ultimate badge of respect."
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KEY PART: “over seven million records sold”
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From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petra_(band) :

"Throughout the 1980s and into the early 1990s, Petra was undoubtedly the world's most popular Christian rock band, with each of its albums during that period selling hundreds of thousands of copies while the band sold out arenas and regularly placed songs at the top of Christian radio charts. With its lyrics, music and style, Petra influenced numerous other artists at a time when Christian rock experienced strong opposition from many conservative pastors and churches.
In more than three decades, the band experienced numerous lineup changes yet released 20 studio albums, as well as three Spanish-language and two live albums, selling nearly 10 million copies while being nominated for 13 Grammy Awards, winning four, and winning 10 Dove Awards."

&

"Helped in part by a newly inked distribution agreement between Word and A&M that would give Petra and other Word-distributed bands placement in mainstream music stores for the first time,[37] Beat the System sold more than 200,000 copies in four months, and by the end of the year, Billboard had certified Petra as the biggest-selling gospel music group in the country.[38] When it debuted at No. 18 on the Billboard Top 40 Inspirational LPs chart in February 1985, Beat the System trailed both Not of This World (No. 6 in its 56th week on the chart) and More Power to Ya (No. 15 in week 115).[39] Not for long: It leapt to No. 4 on the next chart, giving Petra two top 10 albums for the first time,[40] and by June it had taken over the top spot on the chart,[29] which it held for more than two months.[41] In the end, Beat the System was one of the nation's top two Christian albums for nearly half a year.[42]

For its career, Petra topped the million-record mark in 1985, with 900,000 of them sold in the four years since Never Say Die.[6] At the time of its release, Beat the System was the biggest Christian rock record ever recorded and the third-biggest Christian album of the 1980s (trailing only Amy Grant's Age to Age and Sandi Patti's Songs From the Heart). By decade's end, Beat the System's impact on the Christian sales charts trailed only records by Grant, Patti, Steve Green and Michael W. Smith.[43] Finally, the band was nominated for a Grammy for the second consecutive year, again for Best Gospel Performance by a Duo, Group, Choir or Chorus.[44]"
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KEY PART (one of several really): “Petra topped the million-record mark in 1985”
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From http://articles.chicagotribune.com/keyw ... featured/3 :

"Petra, also a Grammy Award nominee this year for their last album, "Not of This World," sold more than 600,000 albums in 1984 and played to packed houses in concert halls throughout the United States and abroad."

&

"If you ask Bill Hearn, president of Sparrow Records, how many copies he sold of the latest album he released by Steven Curtis Chapman, one of contemporary Christian music's best known singers, he'll tell you more than 600,000. If you ask Soundscan, the company that tabulates sales at music stores for Billboard magazine's widely used music charts, it will tell you 85,000. The reason for this disparity, according to the Gospel Music Association, is that four out of five contemporary Christian albums are sold at book retailers, stores where Soundscan's computerized sales tracking system is not yet in place."
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EXTRAPOLATED KEY PART: According to the Gospel Music Association, 80% of CCM record sales did not get counted towards official gold and platinum certifications. In this Chicago Tribune article it mentions that "Not of This World," sold more than 600,000 albums in 1984. If that is only 20% of the number then that means it actually sold more like 3,000,000 copies. Yes, I concede that there is NO proof of it because I do not have manufacturing records nor bookstore sales figures, but it is something to consider.
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I believe there can be no argument that Petra as a whole has sold somewhere between 7 to 10 million (or more?) records over the last 40 years. There really can’t be any argument that at LEAST 1 million of those came during the Classic Petra lineup days. Bob Hartman probably has a good idea if those numbers are in the right ball park. And we have been told Bob Hartman approved the new site. So, I am OK with their wording, even if it has been changed since I started writing this note. I think there is plenty of information to back up that position.

Now, if they had claimed platinum albums, there would be a problem because they never met the official certification criteria within the system as it existed at the time. But they never said that...

[Preacherman777]

I don't doubt that the statement was technically accurate within the scope that it was meant, but for the sake of not confusing people, it's probably best that the change was made.

[brent]

adpetrafan, that was good. It is amazing how many of you guys are so nit-picky and not reading the text for what it says in it's context. You guys need to relax sometimes. There if one Petra album is copied and distributed and/or listened to a day, we are talking about the band surpassing Platinum status. The important thing is that Petra was huge, sold huge, played huge. They are back, and they are offering more music, more shows. Now, it would be in everyone's best interest to start getting the word out.

[p-freak]

I haven't read what it says right now in the bio, and to be honest, I wouldn't mind the 'multi-platinum status' at all, if it wasn't for the fact that Multi-Platinum is trademarked by the RIAA, so I'm not sure if you can use this exact phrase if you don't have the accompanying RIAA certification.

That said, it is exceedingly clear from Adpetrafan's post (thanks!) that Not of This World and Beat The System already reached more than half a million in sales quite soon after release date. Add the sales from the CD re-releases in the late 80s and early 90s and many people like me who only found out about Petra in the 90s and bought their entire back catalog: I wouldn't be surprised if albums sales both both individual albums topped 1,000,000. And of course MPTY is still in print and is still being sold (even though packaged together with TMW) and all of the albums are available on iTunes and wouldn't be there if there was no interest at all.

So then maybe even the 7 to 10 million albums estimation could be on the low side.

[bakersfieldpethead]

There is a difference between “Platinum” and “RIAA Certified Platinum”

[brent]

...let's not get stuck on the RIAA alone. That is for America only. Petra sold MORE albums overseas than they did in the USA. So, like I posted before, Platinum is used by the IFP as well, and in some countries, that is only 500 units. So it is all relative. The band sold millions, which is platinum status/level/whatever. If someone wants to pay for accounting to prove this wrong, belly up. Until then, people need to lump it. Maybe we need to get a video of Bob on his site saying, "We sold MILLIONS of records".