"The Greater Cause" - John's New CD

[adpetrafan]

For the radio single discussion, please let me establish where I am coming from.

1) Although I had heard a thing here and there over the years, the last music of John's that I really listened to was on This Means War.
2) I helped with the new album (kickstart) after praying about the ministry potential knowing there was a chance I would not care for the music. (Just being totally honest.)

I have listened to the whole album many times now and am very pleased with it. John, and everyone else involved did a great job! There are really no songs that are "skippable" for me. I do have some I like more than others, but it is a great set of music in my opinion. I hope many lives are changed by it.

There are a few songs that I end up hearing in my head when I am not listening to the CD. I understand a big part of that is personal taste, but they are:

Love Won't Leave Me Alone
One Of These Days
Where I Wanna Be
The Cross Remains

I understand the desire to use Live It Loud as a single, but it is different enough from other songs on the album that I would hate to have it be the representative song. If someone does not like the style, they will never give the rest a chance.

Of the four I wrote above I think my two favorites are One Of There Days and The Cross Remains.

All of this is for what it's worth. I hope it helps a bit.

[Preacherman777]

I think I'd avoid using a ballad. This album was heavily pitched as a return to rock for John and first impressions matter quite a bit. The new Van Halen album is a good example. Many people immediately panned the album as not being what they expected from classic Van Halen because the first single they released was more of a pop rock song then the real rocker they were expecting. Even though the rest of the album rocks your socks off, people judged it by that first single. I'm afraid the same could happen to John. There are a lot of people I know on other Christian rock boards who are waiting to buy this album when the CD comes out and so they haven't had their first taste of it. I assure you, they are looking for that promised rocker they've been hearing about and a ballad would totally turn them off. Live is Loud is certainly more of a rocker, but far from being the best one. In my mind, Hope that Saves the World is easily the best song on the album and I think would work well as a song to lead people to want the rest of the album.

[Preacherman777]

Whether it's an innocuous prayer of blessing or the Lord's Prayer, this is exactly what Jesus warned about when he spoke against vain repetition.

Actually, no it's not. Jesus was talking about the long, drawn out prayers of pagans. Who thought they would be heard for their much speaking. (Matt. 6:7) The Lord's Prayer is something that Jesus himself taught us to pray.

[brent]

I used to blanket apply that vain repetition to everything, because that is how I was programmed by the Independent Fundamental Borg-tists. But we are told to pray without ceasing, earnestly, repeatedly, with thanks, requests, etc.

The one thing that I would love to apply to he verse is P&W music, i.e. 7/11 songs. I have to extend a little grace because so many of the new P&W leaders are young and musically illiterate. So many have volunteer church musicians and they have no chops. So, I get that. But I was just at my daughter's church and as God is my witness, they played the same dang chord and the bass player played the SAME STINKIN' NOTE, (say like The Count from Sesame Street) for one, two, three AH-AH-AH...THREE worship songs...AH-AH-AH (lightning crashes, thunder rolls). My wife and eye were reaching for my gun....just kidding. Oh my. They were sincere, and the crowd was into praying and singing, but that bad repetition was a distraction.

[Preacherman777]

Actually, no it's not. The slam against the pagans was their "vain" repetition. The Psalms are full of repetition, so repetition isn't the problem. It's the vanity, babble, meaninglessness, which is what happens when unbelievers mumble the Lord's Prayer that they don't mean.

Actually, you just kind of confirmed my point and then went on to contradict your first point. Yes, the problem was their vain repetition in praying. Long drawn out prayers without meaning. Thinking they will be heard for their much speaking. The context is very important here. Then you went on to prove my point with your statement about the Psalms, so you kind of defeated your own argument. The problem isn't the prayer as you seemed to suggest the first time, but rather the heart of those praying it. Now, if that had been the point you were trying to make instead of taking issue with the repeated use of specific prayer, it would have made much more sense. None the less, things like that innocuous prayer and the pledge used to teach our children to have respect for things greater than themselves and did so without violating the establishment clause. Since the time we've done away with that, our children, by and large have become secular humanistic narcissists and I would suggest that that was exactly the plan. Don't get me wrong, I am all for separation of church and state under the context that Jefferson intended and in the Spirit of those reformers who supported it in order to do away with church membership requirements for citizenship, but the way we understand it today is 180 degrees off from all of that. Understanding history as it pertains to all of this is extremely important so that you don't allow today's concepts of this to warp your understanding of what it really meant.

[Preacherman777]

how is reciting the Lord's prayer not meaningless babble when people don't believe it?

You might want to reread what I wrote because in it, I both pointed out how you contradicted yourself and answered the question you just asked. Pay special attention to my words "The problem isn't the prayer...., but rather the heart of those praying it." From there I went on to explain why I don't think it's use was at all bad for them and just to be clear, I would in no way condone coerced prayer. If someone would wish to sit it out (just as with the pledge) that should be their right. My main point however, was the fact that nothing about the prayer violated the establishment clause anymore than does the Pledge. It should be noted that both the Supreme Court and the Congress still open their sessions with prayer. Simply put, this was the same for schools, until 1962. But what's at stake in your argument is the nature of what Jesus was saying. Jesus was condemning the pagans for praying to false Gods under false concepts. That being, that if they drag out their prayers by saying the same thing over and over again, that their Gods would hear them. Praying with a false heart under a false concept. It had nothing to do with the repeated use of a specific prayer over days, months or years, but rather the manner in which one prays in a given instance. For the record, here is the prayer they used to pray in schools.

"Almighty God, we acknowledge our dependence upon Thee, and we beg Thy blessings upon us, our parents, our teachers and our country. Amen."

Here is the prayer they pray in the Supreme Court to this day, the same court that took away the above prayer from our children.

"God save the United States and this honorable court."

[HudsonPethead]

I prefer Take me Home or Hope That Saves The World.

[rexreed]

The one thing that I would love to apply to he verse is P&W music, i.e. 7/11 songs. I have to extend a little grace because so many of the new P&W leaders are young and musically illiterate. So many have volunteer church musicians and they have no chops. So, I get that. But I was just at my daughter's church and as God is my witness, they played the same dang chord and the bass player played the SAME STINKIN' NOTE, (say like The Count from Sesame Street) for one, two, three AH-AH-AH...THREE worship songs...AH-AH-AH (lightning crashes, thunder rolls). My wife and eye were reaching for my gun....just kidding. Oh my. They were sincere, and the crowd was into praying and singing, but that bad repetition was a distraction.

The main reason I can't stand 95% of P&W music and the churches that employ it as "modern." Folks tell me they go to a different kind of church, sometimes calling it a "rock and roll" church. Like P&W is new or something and I haven't heard of it. What it really means when I hear that is their church has no taste in music and neither does the congregation. Thanks, I'll pass. Again I'd say 95% is trash.

[andreasbjerre]

"Live it loud" as first single : NO! The style is not representative of the whole album, and I personally don't like the rap thing that is going on in this song. I would say "love wont leave me", "hope that saves" or "run". Perhaps "love wont leave me" because it's the most catchy song on the album. "One of these days" could do well because it's very similar to a lot of mainstream american rock, though I am not a great fan of it, bacause it sounds like so many other bands.

[brent]

I vote for his song "God Is Stupid".

[executioner]

I vote for his song "God Is Stupid".

I often wonder about some peoples sense of humor.

[brent]

There is a story behind that...radio didn't like "God Is Too Big". Sounded like "God Is Stupid" they said. God knows I don't think he is stupid. God knows I am stupid too.

[executioner]

There is a story behind that...radio didn't like "God Is Too Big". Sounded like "God Is Stupid" they said. God knows I don't think he is stupid. God knows I am stupid too.

I somewhat remember the story, like u just trying to lighten it up a little.

[sue d.]

It's a story that John tells at every solo concert!

[Tutor_23]

Yes, "Take Me Home" or "Hope that Saves the World" would be great initial impressions of John's record.

Is this thread the most viewed in the history of TPZ? 17,000+ at last count!

andy