Album Art: I think we've got a winner!

[Shell]

Greg certainly has a good voice, he did a wonderful job with BGVs the last time I saw them. I'll have to listen a little more closely to Paul when I see them in Oceanside in November. Most of those Petra guys can sing well, they just tend to take a back seat to the lead singer.

Yeah, I'd like to see Greg play the cello too.

[RockOn]

The Farewell cover also reminds me of the Festival Con Dios CD covers (with the emitting rays). I wonder if the same designer did this (since Petra and FCD are all apart of the Inpop family).

[seichu kaisho]

It's not spectacular, but it's okay. Guess it doesn't make much of a difference to me, because the music is more important.

[beak]

I just love it when someone picks quotes out and literally pick them apart. Two hired guns that is not a slam nor was I saying Greg and Paul are not men of God. What I did say was this album doesn't reflect 33 years of service. These four souls on this cover do not reflect all the hard work that all the members that have been in Petra did. My beliefs are not to be taken from my replies for someone to pick apart, they are a my view and I can like or hate anything I want. The pick guard idea is a very good to me no matter what Kirkman picks from my posts. It reflects exactly what a farewell cd or dvd should be, 33 years of service with all the former members and on one cover. Too bad Kirkman has all the answers and all the great ideas.

[Kirkman]

Two hired guns that is not a slam nor was I saying Greg and Paul are not men of God.

Let's get a few things straight. I never said that you said "Greg and Paul are not men of God." I never said anything close to that.

You may not have intended "two hired guns" as a slam, but I think it sounds kinda like one. I mean, it minimizes their importance. These guys have worked hard since they joined the band to maintain and improve the band's level of musicianship. John loves them so much he wanted to document their ability. And on this album, they are half of the performance. They are more than just "hired guns." They are hard-working partners in Petra's ministry.

What I did say was this album doesn't reflect 33 years of service.

Maybe that's what you meant to say, but you didn't actually say that in your original message.

I wish you'd explain how this cover doesn't reflect 33 years of service but the guy in the cornfield does.

This cover shows the band as it exists today at the end of its ministry, bowing, saying farewell. That seems to me like a good send-off image.

These four souls on this cover do not reflect all the hard work that all the members that have been in Petra did.

This album isn't about all the members who have ever been in Petra. Yes, it is a farewell album, and yes it features some nods to the past through guest musician appearances. But this album is mostly a showcase of the final incarnation of Petra: Bob Hartman, John Schlitt, Greg Bailey, and Paul Simmons.

My beliefs are not to be taken from my replies for someone to pick apart, they are a my view and I can like or hate anything I want.

Can't someone disagree with your views and challenge you? Can't you challenge back? What's wrong with that? This is a public discussion forum. It's for discussion and exchange of ideas and opinions.

The pick guard idea is a very good to me no matter what Kirkman picks from my posts. It reflects exactly what a farewell cd or dvd should be, 33 years of service with all the former members and on one cover.

If you like the idea, that's cool. I'm not saying nobody should or nobody would like it. I'm just saying that I personally think it would be uninteresting. Here's why I feel that way:

1. The Farewell album will not feature songs from all the other albums, so it wouldn't make sense to show them all.
2. I prefer to see new and original artwork, not just a rehash of old covers.

Now, I think it would be awesome if the liner notes were extra-long and included a discography with all the previous cover images. That would be awesome. But on the cover of the album, I want to see something new, not just a bunch of tiny old images put together.

Too bad Kirkman has all the answers and all the great ideas.

Hey man, I don't have the answers or very many good ideas. But I like to debate. I'm sorry if I ticked you off, but I disagree with you, that's all. You can disagree with me, if you want. No harm, no foul. We just don't agree. That's the beauty of this forum.

--Josh

[executioner]

I think that was nicely put Kirkman. This is why a disscussion forum is here and not everyone is always going to agree.

[beak]

What I don't prefer is when people on this forum constantly pick quotes out and then pick them apart, actually when you did that to my opinion, you did tick me off, everything I prefered with the album cover was suggested as a bad idea on my part. I don't like the cover, case closed, I prefer that a nuetral cover would be my preference not the last four members of Petra. In my eyes Petra's Farewell album should have been without pictures of any of the members, former or present. No Josh, you never suggested that I said Greg and Paul were not men of God, but someone did with a reply, I think it was someone called Shell? Don't quote me on that, and I mean literally. I prefer not to do that quote thing, to be honest I can't figure that out and I really am not interested in that anyway. The guy in the corn field was not something I was keen on either but it displayed not one Petra member and that I think was a plus. I have worked in bands before, I am or was a lead singer, almost sound exactly like Greg X Volz and I can imitate John Schlit and do an exact copy of Les Carlson of Bloodgood, my fav band and I know what a hired gun is and that is not a bad thing, it was an honest reply, a hired gun is someone that is paid to perform in a band but doesn't own it and John Schiltt was a hired gun at one time like all the former members of Petra were after the first album. Bob Hartman was Petra like Gene Simmons is Kiss. Kiss had original members but Gene and Paul Stanley owned the band. So a hired gun is not a bad thing but and I do mean a big but just the four last members do not reflect 33 years, hired guns included.

[BigD]

Beak, seriously dude, calm down. I think you're taking this a bit personally.

This cover is supposed to represent Petra at the end - which, by including the current members of Petra, it does. I really don't see the problem with that, as attempting to reflect 33 years of music would be a near impossibility.

I like the symblism of the bow, a graceful exit. I also very much agree with Darron's earlier comments; Inpop has given the fans of the band *more* then we should've hoped for, and we should be grateful for what we have, not bicker about what we don't.

Let's put it this way: would you rather end it with this cover and album or with Double Take? (not to discredit the album, but it wouldn't have made a good send-off)

[charl]

Alright, I didn't want to sound like one of the whiners-but while I like the concept, I am not crazy about the way this cover was laid out. It has a bit of a victorian circus vibe. Having said that, I won't be buying it for the cover anyway-who will?

[executioner]

What I don't prefer is when people on this forum constantly pick quotes out and then pick them apart, actually when you did that to my opinion, you did tick me off, everything I prefered with the album cover was suggested as a bad idea on my part. I don't like the cover, case closed, I prefer that a nuetral cover would be my preference not the last four members of Petra. In my eyes Petra's Farewell album should have been without pictures of any of the members, former or present. No Josh, you never suggested that I said Greg and Paul were not men of God, but someone did with a reply, I think it was someone called Shell? Don't quote me on that, and I mean literally. I prefer not to do that quote thing, to be honest I can't figure that out and I really am not interested in that anyway. The guy in the corn field was not something I was keen on either but it displayed not one Petra member and that I think was a plus. I have worked in bands before, I am or was a lead singer, almost sound exactly like Greg X Volz and I can imitate John Schlit and do an exact copy of Les Carlson of Bloodgood, my fav band and I know what a hired gun is and that is not a bad thing, it was an honest reply, a hired gun is someone that is paid to perform in a band but doesn't own it and John Schiltt was a hired gun at one time like all the former members of Petra were after the first album. Bob Hartman was Petra like Gene Simmons is Kiss. Kiss had original members but Gene and Paul Stanley owned the band. So a hired gun is not a bad thing but and I do mean a big but just the four last members do not reflect 33 years, hired guns included.

To be picky about the KISS thing; Peter Criss was also a owner of the KISS rights. When he left the band the first time he had to be bought out of his ownership rights for KISS. This whole thing went to court and he got his money. For a time after he left because of litigation in the courts there were songs that KISS could not play live because because Peter was contributing song writer on those songs and the judge said they could not preform them. Don't ask me which songs because I'm not a KISS fan and wouldn't know which ones were his.

[executioner]

Beak would you say that these guys are hired guns also?


1.Oz Fox-Stryper
2. Rick Savage, Rick Allen, and Vivian Campbell-Def Leppard
3.All the members of Bon Jovi except for John and Richie


Because none of these guys have any kind of ownership rights to their current groups they play in. These are just a few I can name off the top of my head.

[beak]

Calm down? What am I mad or something? Did I blow up? You don't know me very well! I am no where near upset. Like Josh said, this is a forum for debate also. I am happy that we or should I say I am going to get one more "album" really a live album not a real new album though. I can not like the album cover since it is kind of plain and looks like a hurry up and get it done job in my eyes. When it comes to Kiss, if I remember right the history states that Gene and Paul hired Peter Criss, he answered an ad and in reality was a jazz drummer not a rock drummer. Executioner, I would have no idea about those other bands, in reality I only bought Kiss albums, I did buy Stryper albums and never bought a brand new secular album after the first Stryper album. I would think that Oz Fox didn't "own" the band but may have owned part of it. I would believe that Michael Sweet owned the band, but how would I know? I would have to guess. John Schlitt did just say in one of the latest interviews that he has no plans, he doesn't have a nest egg or something like that. People would have to be stupid to think that John Schlitt owned Petra. Someone else here on the forum thinks that John Schlitt wrote a song released by Petra and I don't think that ever happened either.

When it comes to me "calming down" I am calm,secure,loving,soft hearted,tear jerker and quite often down right nasty to be around but that what makes being Steve Brown exciting to me, you never know what to expect!

[callbeyond]

Didn't John write "Just Reach Out"...on Wake Up Call?? I could have sworn he did.

[crossways]

I have ignored this thread....cause I couldn't figure out why the final artwork could be such a hot topic.

I am going to "hold up" with the "hired gun" stuff.

I think one of the most amazing aspects of the ministry of Petra is that the ministry was valued so much more than the "band". Bob even said this at the taping, when he said Petra is bigger than any one member or even the sum of all the members.

Whoever was in Petra was Petra. I never remember a time when a newer member was ignored because they really weren't a full-fledge part of the band.

I know there were guys who weren't in the band very long, and guys who didn't get a lot of coverage (due to Petras lack of coverage in CCM). But even with the later incarnations of Petra (Pete Orta, Lonnie Chapin, etc.) Bob let them have an inordinate amount of songwriting credits for a Petra album (God Fixation).

Greg and Paul are two of the best musicians Petra has ever had, and I didn't get the sense they were not real Petra members. I regret they won't have the chance to add some new music to the Petra catalogue, but they do deserve to have their efforts preserved in film and on cd.

PS...Due to the fluid nature of Petra, I was a bit suprised they opted to retire at all. I had always kind of thought that Bob would always run Petra (like he did when he was off the road) and that even one day John would be replaced. I admit that's hard to fathom, but that seems to be somewhat of the spirit of Petra.

[Petra_Pete]

They could have a cover of a cow grazing in a desert with the word Petra tatooed on the animal and I wouldn't care. It's a Petra album and live to boot! Like my Mom told me as a kid, "It's what's inside that counts."
I think too many are making too big a deal about the album cover. For all we know there may be quite the inside jacket full of picutres and such. And how many of you are actually going to care what the cover looks like when listening to the CD and later the DVD?