Louie and Beat The System

[executioner]

I don't have the actual interview, but it has been quoted on this site and also on your discussion zone about the members in the band being really happy that they actually played on the album(BTTS). I am going by what I've seen on these 2 sites.

[Mountain Man]

I for one thought Beat the System sounded mostly like bubble gum music. Petra was a rock band at the time...and BTS was like programmed music.

Personally, I think it is quinessential 80's. It's everything that was good about 80's rock rolled into a single album. I suppose it's an acquired taste, but Beat the System is one of my more favorite albums.

I'm not surprised that Louie didn't play on that album....but I am surprised that he actually played on very few Petra albums.

I was quite disheartened when I first learned it myself. For years I had been admiring Louie's outstanding drum work on the early albums only to find out that it wasn't Louie!

[Kirkman]

I don't have the actual interview, but it has been quoted on this site and also on your discussion zone about the members in the band being really happy that they actually played on the album(BTTS). I am going by what I've seen on these 2 sites.

I searched extensively on both forums and couldn't find a peep about the article. But I didn't stop looking. I found it on johnwschlitt.com.

The article was from the Oct. 1986 issue of CCM. Here are the relevant excerpts (quotes from Mark Kelly):

"What was neat as opposed to the last album is that this was a band album. Beat the System was a producer's album," Kelly explains. "I didn't play a lick on the last one, and Louie [Weaver] didn't play a lick of drums. Not only did each member play his respective instrument on each cut this time, but we were allowed input even at the mixing stage -- in total contrast to Beat the System -- and that was really exciting. There was so much more a sense of unity like, 'Hey, we're all in this together.'"

"On Beat the System, Greg not only did all the lead, but he stacked all the background as well. This time John Schlitt did a tremendous job on the lead vocals, but then the three of us came in and did all the backup. It was the most involvement I've had on any record to date, and that was really great."

So there you have it from Mark Kelly. the thing I'm still trying to figure out is that this article makes it sound like BTTS was record after the BTS tour. For instance:

The new and improved Petra toured Australia, Norway, and Canada with some isolated amusement park dates in the States before settling in to record Back to the Street.

It also makes it sound like John was recording his vocals at the same time the instrument tracks were being laid down. But that doesn't jive with what Brent and others have said in the past. I dunno.

--Josh

[brent]

I could be wrong. The stuff that Louie told me was during breaks, etc. I could have misunderstood him, or he could have not clearly communicated. Either way, go with what you have there and we'll find out the rest later.

[executioner]

Josh thanks for finding that out for us. I knew I had read it somewhere. Brent should know better than me about this but vocals are very rarely laid at the same time as the music.

[Toby]

I think that's the answer of my question.

I found that interview with Jonathan David Brown on "Guide to Petra".

you can read the whole one on www.guidetopetra.com/JDB. enjoy it



Beat The System... what a departure! Where did that concept come from?

JDB: Some things were done out of necessity. The record took on an "other-worldly" character because I decided to not use Mark Kelly or Louie Weaver on it. This has a can of worms attached to it, so we won't open it completely, just a little. Louie was not in the group when we did Never Say Die. I used Keith Edwards (who toured for six years with Amy, played also in bands for Tanya Tucker, Sweethearts of the Rodeo, Ricky Skaggs, Andrae Crouch and the Disciples, etc. etc.) Keith was drummer in my Jesus Music group SETH. I knew he could handle the job and act like he was really in the band. This is what we needed. As far as I'm concerned, he, John Slick and Greg "made" Never Say Die happen. Not to take anything away from Bob, Mark, or me. I just could not have made the same record without them. The �new' New-Improved PETRA was off and running.

Louie joined the group right after we made Die. He learned all of Keith's parts well, and added his own touch. I was excited to then have a self-contained band for the next one, More Power to Ya. We went to Uvalde, Texas and made perhaps the most fun record I've ever made. We lived in the studio on an 18,000 ranch in the West Texas desert owned by Marty Manry. He had received an early inheritance and built the studio out where the scorpions roam out of creek bedrock from the property. Awesome looking place. Anyway, Louie did GREAT, especially under the kind of pressure I was accustomed to doling out to those who could not play in time. Somewhere in there, though, we had a few tense moments which set the stage for me having to ask him during a subsequent rehearsal to sit out for Not of This World, when I hired Keith to come back. I really regretted having to do this to the band. I really loved Louie. I just was not able to get what I thought PETRA had to have. I don't know, maybe I had tunnel vision... I brought Louie in at the end and add some finishing cymbal touches. This sorta smoothed things out to where we weren't fighting a cold war.

So when Beat the System came around, I was not in the mood for another round of confrontational stuff. I suggested to the Darrell and Wayne and the Band that we go with a Fairlight programmer for bass and drums - Carl Marsh. I pre-programmed drum patterns on a cheap drum machine, which Carl then copied and embellished upon. He did all the keyboard orchestration from bass guitar synth to full-blown pipe organ and strings. John Lawry joined the group toward the end of the process, so I asked him to do a couple of keyboard overdubs on "Beat the System" (the song) and "Adonai." Also Rhett Lawrence (Fairlight programmer in L.A.) added the bizarre stuff on "Clean" and "Hollow Eyes." And of course, Bob did his solid guitar parts which, being the songwriter, molded the tunes' arrangements to begin with on the preparation demos we did. Louie and Mark of course played the live "Beat the System" Tour. They added the needed human touch, but Carl's parts gave them the structure needed for clarity. That tour is where Louie really began to excel and get past our conflict.

The last record I did with them, Captured In Time And Space, made a way for Louie and me to be reconciled. I was able to really encourage him in the live performances. When the results were good, it fuelled his confidence like nothing before. I think he really had a blast. The reason I focused on Louie in this story, besides to explain the Beat the System question, is because he is the longest standing member of the group. He became what I'd consider to be one of the best and most consistent drummers in the business, and made lemonade out of the lemons he bought.

...

[Dan]

Check out this old rec.music.christian post from 1992 13yrs later still talking about it .

rec.music.christian post

Mark Kelly and Louie Weaver were indeed members of Petra when 'Beat the
System' was done, however for some reason their services were not used
on the album. If you look at the album credits you see things like
'bass programing'
and 'drum programing'. That tour was the first one where Mark put down
his bass and played a synth for some tunes (almost all the BtS stuff).
When Back to the Street was recorded the Elefantes (who took over production
from Jonathan David Brown) wanted the band to play their instruments.
Mark Kelly's quote after the album was something like 'This was a band
album, we all got to play. Louie and I didn't play a lick on the last one'.

[BriGuyPEI]

This all brings up another interesting question. We've established that there are several Petra albums where Louie did not play drums. Why then did they have to fire Louie in the first place. If they wanted a different drum sound on J&H, why not just have Peter Furler play the drums and keep Louie for the tour? It worked before...

[executioner]

This all brings up another interesting question. We've established that there are several Petra albums where Louie did not play drums. Why then did they have to fire Louie in the first place. If they wanted a different drum sound on J&H, why not just have Peter Furler play the drums and keep Louie for the tour? It worked before...

My impression is that it had nothing to do with using a different drummer for the JAH recording.

[spottacus]

All indications are Louie's firing was the result of a conflict between Louie and John. But they don't want to talk about the nature of the conflict and it's never been revealed.

[Mountain Man]

From what I've been able to gather by reading between the lines, Louie was unhappy with the band moving away from praise music. I think he was hoping Revival was Petra's new direction, and he was displeased with the decision to move back towards hard-edged rock. Since it doesn't do a band any good to have an unhappy member on board, Louie was let go.

[BriGuyPEI]

Ah ok. I was thinking it was partly because they didn't think Louie could handle the heavier drums.

But I don't want this to turn into yet another 'why was Louie fired' threads. We've had enough of those. I was just kinda throwing out a little 'what if' question.

We now return to our regular thread.

[brent]

Thy horse, tis dead. It haveth no more life. Thy stick hath shattered.

From all of my conversations, reading, etc., I deduced that there are issues that run deep, through many people. The perspectives determine the issues. Management, personality, personal finances, business techniques, practice time, skill, etc all played a factor. The praise thing was a factor, but not a major one.

Who cares? Good night! Louie was given a head start to get something going musically, allowing him to provide for his family, etc. Petra was given one more rock record, and a tour that will leave the hardcore fan satisfied. Louie had to work, Petra had to record and tour. Both things were accomplished. While I miss seeing Louie at the shows, because he represents Petra just as much as Bob does (to me), Paul is a stinkin' good drummer. I would like to see Lester from Pillar play for Petra a few times. That would be groovy to say the least.

Truth be known, I shouldn't have seen this tour as much as I have (and will have), because in my mind's eye, the arena days were heaven. It was the large crowd, the energy, the time period in my life, the current events of the day, etc that made those days stand out as the best.

As with this subject, the band Petra, visits to the messageboard, and life itself, all things must end. I have truely enjoyed meeting some of you, swapping CDs, emails, etc.

Lately, I have been becoming more aware of the fact that I and my music are old now, and isolated from the norm of society. I now feel what those generations before me felt, when the new music did not appeal, make sense, etc. When they wondered "what could possibly be worse that this?", only to hear it in the next fad the following week.

Thanks for all of the fun here at the Zone. It was fun.