Fav petra songs poll #7 (Beat The System)

[greenchili]

How about a little FIRE scarecrow?

Thanks all for voting on the previous poll. Moving along.

With the recent ending of Petra's music ministry I thought it'd be kind of fun to start a series of polls on favorite songs. Starting with their first album and working to the last. I figured I'd do an album each week.

So for those interested, get out your petra CD's and start listening.

Voting for last weeks album "Not Of This World" is completed Seems we are picked up a few voters. Here da results from the previous poll.

Grave Robber (#1 single) [9]
Bema Seat [5]
Not By Sight [5]
God Pleaser [5]
Not Of This World (#1 single) [3]
Blinded Eyes [3]
Lift Him Up [2]
Pied Piper [1]
Occupy [1]
Visions & Visions Reprise (Doxology) [0]

This makes the first poll to get a vote for virtually every song except for one (which I can understand why). But the clear winner is "Grave Robber" who rose from the dead and "stole" the lead! (yeah I know very bad puns). In a three way tie for second we have "Bema Seat", "Not By Sight" and "God Pleaser".

Next up is "Beat The System" which was release in 1984. A handful of notes.

This album marked a significant change for Petra (at the time) and if I'm right created some controversy in many ways. For one it marked the first petra album with less christian specific lyrics. You'd think this woulda made CCM's top 100 christian albums the way they love non-specific lyrics. Anyways...

I have heard from various places (like here, and I believe liner notes from Bob) that this was not a particular favorite album of Bob's. After reading these comments in "War and Remembrance" I can kinda see why. Although I have to wonder if it was the lyrics that Bob disliked, or the musical direction. I only mention that because I like this album alot and have said that I'm a big fan of ELO's "Time" album (if you've heard that album then you'd understand). Anyways here are the quotes (shortened/modified by me).

BTS was made when Word had a distribution agreement with A&M Records. The idea being this was the way to break down the barriers that existed with secular music. We were going to mainstream radio. A year after this record, Bob Hartman specifically re-affirmed that God called Petra to be a straightforward Christian rock band that is unashamed to proclaim Jesus in their music. If you look at the record in that light, there is no other record Petra ever made like that.

Wes Yoder

Another quote related to controversy..

With the song "Hollow Eyes," Petra found themselves chided by much of the radio establishment and the evangelical establishment.

Paul Baker

Where have I seen this before? Oh yeah... It happened to Steve Camp as well.. Witch Hunt indeed...

1. Last studio album with Greg X Volz

2. No more cool guitar covers (for now).

3. Never realized till it was mentioned here about lawry's partial involvement. Was not surprised when I looked at the credits and saw (who else)... Carl Marsh. I've always liked his synth work.

4. Apparently there was some backmasking in this album as well (Witch Hunt). Could someone clarify?

5. Petra's first music video was "Beat The System" the title track of this album.

Although probably not the best song on the album I had to go with "Speak To The Sky" because I like it so much. The guitar (and bass) parts remind me of bagpipes. No surprise that it also has a similar sound to "Blinded Eyes" and "Chameleon".

That being said I would go with "Adonia" as my 2nd choice.

Quiz... How many songs did petra do based on different names of God? (name em if you can)

Feel free to add anything.

Anyways... go ahead and spin your discs and put in your vote!!!

[jimmye4563]

My vote went for Adonai with my second choice being It Is Finished. I also like all the other songs.[/i]

[Petra Fan Canada]

This was one of my first albums that I played to death. I've had to buy ot 3 times.

That said, I prefer the live versions of these songs now. Guitars were buriedbehind too much keyboard. This was defintely a pop album.

It is Finished got my vote as it is a stright forward rock anthem.

I will finish out by saying this. I eas disappointed during the Farewell Tour that Bob didn'y play that guitar riff he does, on the second line of the first verse: "He saw the bloody woven thorns..". He does it on CITS (don't start ), but not this time.

[js3971]

This is one of my favorite Petra albums of all time. I love this album, and the resulting live CITAS. I voted for It is Finished. I remember when they closed with this song on their Beyond Belief tour in El Paso. It just rocked. I also liked the guitar ending Bob did to the original keyboard ending on the Farewell album.

When we had our foster children, they wanted me to play the song Beat the System over and over. Jared the 2 year old, would get upset if I stopped the song, or when Computer Brains would start. He'd be happy again if I started Beat the System again. It was quite comical.

[yamasaaaki har har]

It's STIC! Come on!!

Anyway, 9 votes so far and how can I be the only one that voted for the title track? The song "Beat the System" is so exciting. And even though the drums are electronic, the drums sound so flashy and cool.

Unfortunately this album has some iffy songs. Tracks 6 and 7 do not seem to fit, and destroy the mood set by the first 5 songs and I like to skip those songs. "Computer Brains" has the best lyrics of the entire album, but musically it is really strange. "Clean" is kind of an average song to me.

Besides the first song, the others I like are 4, 5, 8, 9, and 10. "Hollow Eyes" is my second favorite, and it picks up where "Voice in the Wind" left off.

[blod6ett]

I think everybody is choosing 'It's Finished' because the Farewell experience. BTS is one of this awesome Petra albums, full of incredible songs. Maybe one year ago, the option was the title track, or Computer brains/Clean, after It's Finished.
I feel one thing: everybody here want have another secret vote, for 'Hollow Eyes'. everybody.

[greenchili]

I forgot to mention the "Strawberry Fields" like ending of "Witch Hunt" just imagine all the different plays on "I buried Paul" they coulda done.

[charl]

I also played this album to death. It was one of the first Petra albums I bought.
My best friend and I used to dance to it all the time (hey we were 13 we danced to anything), and I still remember alot of the moves-can't help but laugh at certain parts because of that, heheh. As a result of doing the robot repeatedly to Computer Brains, I find the song (which I did not care for) has become an aquired taste. This album is one of the most nostalgic and therefore most beloved of Petra's for me.

ETA: I also loved the juxtaposition of the anti 'assembly line' message of the first two songs of either side with the machine made musical backdrop. That was such a cool idea.

I also love the title track, but I chose the song that was my absolute favorite song to sing (still is) since the dancing days.



Adonai.

[Epyon5757]

I vote for "It Is Finished."

If what was quoted from War and Remembrance was true (and this is the only Petra CD item that I do not have and cannot find), then I must say I don't entirely blame Bob for not liking this album. But I must ask, if Bob supposedly picked out the tracks for the new "best of" project, how did four songs from BTS wind up on that list if Bob Hartman didn't care for this album???

That being said, Bob's sentiments don't seem to be shared by the majority of the Petra diehards. I could have easily voted for "Adonai" or "Hollow Eyes," and I also enjoy "Clean," "Beat the System, "and "Voice In The Wind."

However, there's always one or two Petra songs on any given Petra album that I just do not like at all (the exceptions being the albums On Fire, Beyond Belief, Wake Up Call, and Jekyll & Hyde). I don't particularly care for "Computer Brains" - but it sounds ok on CITAS. And, despite my feelings regarding the original Petra album (which I generally despise), I cannot stand the song "Witch Hunt," and I REFUSE to listen to it.

[greenchili]

The quotes from war and remembrance were from a guy named Paul Baker, the author of the book "Why Should The Devil Have All The Good Music" and Wes Yoder who is listed as "President, Ambassador Artist Agency". FWIW.

So far the quotes I've read from Paul Baker are interesting which makes me consider looking for that book.

As for Bob's comments (or lack thereof). Petra had an official website around 4 years ago (I'm not even sure if it is still around) where there was a discography and Bob had comments about each album. I really do not remember them well. But he seemed especially fond of "More Power To Ya" and "Beyond Belief" and lesser so of BTS, but then maybe I just got the wrong impression.

I was thinking the same thing about the number of songs on BTS included in the upcoming CD. But maybe his perspective has changed on it, or maybe he is looking at it from the historical viewpoint of what was attempted and what occured. Who knows.

I never even realised at the time Petra came under such heavy fire at the time. Talk about being hit from both sides!! As a christian I never had any problems with "Hollow Eyes" except for maybe it being a little sappy for my tastes. But hey, I was a teen at the time. I wish I would have followed what was going on in the industry more at the time.

As for computer brains I love the song. Especially the guitar part (break out. bump, bump bump, bump bump, bump bump) well anyways. Witch hunt does do a good job of running into Hollow Eyes though and it's and oddball coincidence that Hollow Eyes would cause a Witch Hunt to start (if you get what I mean).

ok I'll stop blabbing. But I will admit I'm surprised at the number of people saying they like this album. I always thought it was the least liked by petra fans. But then maybe it took time or a string of so so albums by petra for people to see it in a different light.

[St_Augustines_Pears]

As everyone on this board knows, I'm not a fan of the Greg X. Volz-era Petra (sorry, the guy is a great vocalist, but just doesn't do it for me). However, I do like the song "Beat the System".

I would've loved to have heard John Schlitt sing that on the FAREWELL tour.

"Caught in the undertow...being swept downstream...".

[Epyon5757]

As for Bob's comments (or lack thereof). Petra had an official website around 4 years ago (I'm not even sure if it is still around) where there was a discography and Bob had comments about each album. I really do not remember them well. But he seemed especially fond of "More Power To Ya" and "Beyond Belief" and lesser so of BTS, but then maybe I just got the wrong impression.

You know, it's kinda funny that the albums (and songs) that music fans like you and me seem to like don't usually match up with what the writer and/or performer likes best or seems to think is their best work...

I was thinking the same thing about the number of songs on BTS included in the upcoming CD. But maybe his perspective has changed on it, or maybe he is looking at it from the historical viewpoint of what was attempted and what occured. Who knows.

Well, hindsight IS always 20/20. I found the line that this was supposed to be a "crossover" album into mainstream to be interesting...you can't get much more blatantly Christian (which seems to be what Petra tries to accomplish most of the time) than the songs "It Is Finished" and "Adonai." Maybe it's because I'm a bit younger than what seems to be the majority of Petra fans from this era...but the "crossover" albums today are MUCH more vague than BTS. While some songs make no specific mention of God or Jesus, BTS was (is) most definitely a Christian album, based on the lyrics to the songs.

I never even realised at the time Petra came under such heavy fire at the time. Talk about being hit from both sides!! As a christian I never had any problems with "Hollow Eyes" except for maybe it being a little sappy for my tastes.

Petra, in the middle of a controversy for music? You're kidding!!!
I also did not know that Christians had a problem with "Hollow Eyes" - any idea why Christians had a problem with this song? I know that Petra had a VERY hard time getting radio play time on Christian stations (I even had a program director at WONU - Kankakee, IL who told me a few years ago that he would never play Petra because he "hated them." I always thought a program manager was supposed to play what the people wanted, and there were a LOT of Petra fans at ONU at the time).

Witch hunt does do a good job of running into Hollow Eyes though and it's and oddball coincidence that Hollow Eyes would cause a Witch Hunt to start (if you get what I mean).

In all fairness, I did only listened to Witch Hunt once. Perhaps I should try listening to it again and see if a few years makes a difference. And yes, I get what you mean. hehe.

[greenchili]

ok well here is more of the exerpt from War and Remembrance (just did not feel like typing it all. )

Apparently Paul Baker was a D.J. Because here is more of what he said.

I was working at a station where the manager called me after I played that song and said "The message of that song is negative. It makes me feel ill. Take that thing off." Unfortunately, it had that effect."

I looked up the albums for the other artists mentioned as crossover and here they are.

Russ Taff "Medals"
Amy Grant "Unguarded"
Leon Patillo "Love Around The World"

That being said I would have to agree. All three had non-specific lyrics. The Leon Patillo one was probably the least but then it was probably classified as Gospel too.

Side note. Unguarded marked Amy's first hit crossover single with "Find A Way".

Steve Camp also got in trouble with the church establishment for writing "Do you feel their pain".. or was it "Don't tell them Jesus loves them"? I forget which. Of course then there was Steve Taylor who got it for "I blew up the clinic real good". With a title like that I can kinda see why.

You know, it's kinda funny that the albums (and songs) that music fans like you and me seem to like don't usually match up with what the writer and/or performer likes best or seems to think is their best work...

Odd how that works. For example even though "More Power To Ya" may have broke more ground. To me "Not Of This World" is the better rounded album and I thought "Beat The System" was brilliant. But that is just me.

Maybe it's because I'm a bit younger than what seems to be the majority of Petra fans from this era...but the "crossover" albums today are MUCH more vague than BTS. While some songs make no specific mention of God or Jesus, BTS was (is) most definitely a Christian album, based on the lyrics to the songs.

The crossover albums today are MUCH more vague. But believe me. At the time of BTS my mom was like "Speak to the sky? Why would I want to speak to the sky? I pray to God". She hated the M.W.Smith album "The Big Picture" as well. She didn't like it cause you could "dance" to it. She preferred his older stuff because it was more "spiritual".

It was never a concern to me though. Cause I couldn't dance to save my life.

Yeah you would think that a song like "Hollow Eyes" would be appreciated by the Christian community. But apparently alot of the "body of Christ" wants to hear the safe warm and cuddly messages.

[greenchili]

I was listening to this album again this morning, volume fully loaded, after listening to "Time" and I have to say that production wise (and sonically) the album really holds up. Especially considering it was originally released on LP/Tape before the christian market started going to CD.

"Time", although an older album by 4 years does not quite hold up as well (sonically). That could be because of a poor transition from analog to CD. It came out well before CD started. I still like the album alot though.

[Epyon5757]

Not liking an album because you could "dance" to it...not a particularly new concept. In all fairness to those of the older generation, while I respect your beliefs and values, sometimes you need to keep quiet and let things like that play out.
I know a good number of people who first got into Christian music because you could dance to it - and as a result, they heard a Christian song (or at the very least a Christian artist) being played in a secular setting. I am not advocating doing immoral things, just stating that some crossover songs that can be danced to have led a number of people to Christianity.
As for "Hollow Eyes" being depressing and Christians wanting the warm, cuddly songs - I don't know about the majority of Christians, and I certainly will NOT speak for them - but as for me and my wife - the "warm, fuzzy, cuddly" songs don't cut it religiously for us - and we certainly don't think about how we apply our faith while listening to those songs. But a song like "Hollow Eyes" - which has a powerful message if one listens to it - or even "For Annie," - while they may be sad, do issue challenges to step out of one's comfort zone. An artist who is willing to take criticism for trying to challenge Christians with songs like these should be commended in the highest possible way.

On a side note - I did listen to "Witch Hunt" this weekend and have revised my opinion of the song - the overall message in the lyrics might very well have been more controversial than "Hollow Eyes" was - except "Witch Hunt" didn't get radio time. I have come to the new conclusion that the overall song of "Witch Hunt" is not a bad song - I now only despise the first four or five seconds of the song (the wheezing voice that opens up the song) and the background "statements" scattered throughout the song that do not appear to have any relevance to the music or the lyrics themselves. I agree that the song doesn't quite fit on BTS - then again, I'm not really sure if it would fit well on ANY Petra album. If I could find a way to cut out that first few seconds on this song, I would like it MUCH better. I have removed the song from my "never listen" list.