Answer this Greg Volz question

Shell · Post by **Shell** » Sun Feb 12, 2006 5:09 pm

Okay, so maybe they don't feel sharing personal information with the general public would be beneficial either. It is one thing to ask a question out of curiousity or a desire to be helpful. It is another to not be satisfied with what information you do receive and keep making demands. I agree with the idea of accountability, but why should they be accountable to you in particular? If they're smart, they do have people around them they can be accountable to. That applies to anyone too. That's what church families are for. Brent's suggestion is a good one. You probably won't find satisfactory answers here, nobody really knows the circumstances. Ask them yourself, but don't be surprised if you get a "mind your own business" or no reply for an answer. You might want to tell them about some of the skeletons in YOUR closet while you're fishing for theirs too while you're at it. These folks don't get off scot free. There are always consequences for your actions, even if you don't reap those consequences until later and even if people who don't know you don't know what those consequences are. You seem to think those consequences should include you knowing all their circumstances. If their hearts aren't right with God, they'll reap eternal consequences too, and any earthly consequences are nothing in comparison.

I am not a Bill Clinton fan by the way.

AlwaysJohnLawryFan · Post by **AlwaysJohnLawryFan** » Sun Feb 12, 2006 5:39 pm

Unlost,

Whatever happens in Greg's life is none of our bees wax. Accountability? to who? He owes us nothing. Whatever happened God forgave and remembers nomore.

John 8:1-11

Yeah let's talk about throwing stones? Who are you too? Have you committed any sin? We have so who are we to throw or even question Greg about his business.

unlost · Post by **unlost** » Sun Feb 12, 2006 7:36 pm

Apparently many of you think Christians have the liberty to sin without answering to anyone but God? Therefore it opens up the possibility that I can excuse what I do and tell you to mind your own business.
Is no one else here having a problem with that?
Why does the Bible rebuke the sin of sexual immorality instead of just brushing it aside?

brent · Post by **brent** » Sun Feb 12, 2006 7:52 pm

unlost wrote:Jonothan

At least you actually listened to my question while everyone else went off as usual whenever this issue comes up.

There are no winners in divorce, but if we keep avoiding addressing the issue we are turning our heads at the seriousness of it all which leads others to think it's no big deal if they don't honor their vows.

I am seeing an increase in Christian musicians getting divorced. And even though every says it's a personal issue, it seems to be imposed on us that we should just go on without expecting an explanation. I won't go into the list but there are more than a dozen popular CCM artists that divorced. Remember when Amy Grant said she didn't expect people to understan, but she "felt peace" about her decision? And coincidentally Vince Gill gets a convenient divorce for them to get together. That's flimsy. God doesn't lead you by peace that breaks covenants. Try talking to the children involved and see if their filled with peace.

Or if ya want me to accept your view, then don't critisise your spouse if they leave you! JUST SHUT UP and remember the things you posted here.

Look. We are all the same in the eyes of God. We are all sinners. I don't care what anyone in CCM says, CCM is not ministry. If it were ministry, all involved would be set up as 503C not-for-profit charities/ministries. It is a business. it is the business demands and the fanbase that have made undue stars out of people no better than us. It is the reality that when people get popular, you have demands o your life and the opportunity to make choices that are not afforded the average jack or jill. Even in ministry, when someone has reached A list status, people treat them like the forth member of the trinity. What crap. They all have stinky arm pits like we do. Nobody is perfect. Just as you owe nobody an apology the last time your life was blasphemous to God, neither do they.

Re: Amy. I do not condone divorce. But, I am sorry, she shouldn't have married that idiot anyway. Christians should not marry into Jehova's Witness. Chapman had albums sold in Christian stores. He even went to a mainline church following his marraige. But, as I understand it he was a JW.

He was also a different guy. There are many stories around the Christian music scene, where he went hunting with some producers. He was always excitable. He tied a stick of explosives to a bunny in the woods on one trip. The bunney ran under his brand new jeep. The bunny and the jeep went to bunny and jeep heaven.

Amy as loved by Vince and Vince was loved by Amy for a long time. No big surprise that some funny business went on (which she has admitted to).

Sandy Patty...messed around...got caught.
Leon Petillo...with an ALL FEMALE BAND? Gee no surprise when he got busted.
Michael English...busted.
MANY, MANY others.

But who cares? Do they owe me anything. Why? Forgiveness is not for us to give. It is for the people that they directly affected, and God. That's it. They are people living on a stage, where reality is absurd, and the little things suddenly matter 200% more than they should.

brent · Post by **brent** » Sun Feb 12, 2006 8:31 pm

unlost wrote:ok you ae using the "let him who has no sin cast the first stone" argument. that's fine, and we can talk about me all ya want. I'd be glad to expose something in my life if i think it will help someone. Maybe that's my answer. Maybe they think it causes more trouble than help. What I'm getting at is Christians are getting away scott free with no accountability under the guise of "personal issue".
Thank you Bill Clinton.

God uses the systems and laws that he set into moton. God is just. He delights in the balance. Look, everyone who sins can be forgiven. BUT, your reaping has just begun. If you get aids via a homosexual encounter, you can be forgiven for you sin (which is no greater or less than any other sin), but you're still going 6' under a little quicker than you would have if you would have not made that choice.

So, there is justice in all things. That justice may not be for you to take glory in. I am sure that if you call everyone related to Greg X Volz, they would tell you that at one time, and mayeb currently, their life is/was hell. I am sure that he will tell you that he would have done some things differently, and that it hurt his relationship with God Almighty. I Don't see that as Greg getting off scott free.

As for you seeing more Christian musicians getting divorced, I don't know that is true, or how you could quantify that. Divorce is big in the church. It has been for some time. Since people quit reading some of the sciptures literally, it has taken the pressure offf of pastors to stay married. In Greek, husband of one wife means just that. One is one and wife is wife. But...we threw the baby out with the bath water.

But, why aren't you mad about your local church's divorce rate? Why not your neghbor? Why aren't you interigating them?

Shell · Post by **Shell** » Sun Feb 12, 2006 9:20 pm

You're twisting what I'm saying unlost my friend. I didn't say it was cool to sin and shrug it off by saying it's between you and God, and I didn't say there wasn't a place to account for your actions. I'm saying these folks shouldn't feel pressured to give detailed explanations to a demanding public.

CCM needs to stop being about money, put God first, see the sin and corruption for what it is and be accountable to itself before it can be accountable to anyone else. Why didn't anyone around the people Brent mentioned sit them down and ask them what in the world they thought they were doing? Someone they knew must have least suspected something was going on. Of course it was their own sinful behavior along with a fair amount of stupidity that got them into their situations, but I think the corrupt atmosphere of CCM played a big part too, along with a public that tends to think these folks can do no wrong. They have to deal with the same things all the rest of us do, maybe even more intensely because they have to deal with the public so much.

I agree divorce is a problem; there are too many broken marriages. But it certainly isn't a problem only in CCM. Why don't you pray for these folks instead of demanding information? You don't need to know all the details to pray for them.

BeReady · Post by **BeReady** » Mon Feb 13, 2006 12:26 am

Okay guys, I think some of you are being a little harsh on Unlost. He just asked a question. I don't think Unlost intended to be malicious or spread gossip. If you really felt his question was inappropriate, you shouldn't have taken the time to reply, by now this topic would have fallen to the bottom of the list.

I must admit that I, too, am curious about Greg's divorce. Not because I'm nosey or looking for gossip, but because I believe Greg views his music as a ministry. I'll concede the point about CCM being a business. Those artists who view themselves as simply "artists" don't deserve to be put on a pedestal. But when you start talking about "ministry," that's a new ballgame. The Bible is very clear that those who desire to do ministry through teaching or leading (and you can lead and teach through music) have a higher standard of accountability. (James 3:1; 1 Timothy 3:1-7)

Is Greg's divorce none of my business? On a personal level, it probably is none of my business. But when he presents himself as a minister, and asks me (via advertisement) to support that ministry, I have a right to inquire about his divorce. If he chooses not to answer that question or disclose that information, that is his perogative.

I currently pastor a church in central Illinois. Over the course of my ministry, I have met with numerous "search committees" both as a pastor and minister of music. Just about every one of them asked the question "Are you divorced?" They have that right.

A marriage is a covenant between three persons--man, woman, and God. God's word says that covenant can only be broken under two conditions Adultery (Jesus) and abandonment (Paul). A divorce for any other reason is sin. In that case confession and repentence need to take place. Am I in a position to judge Greg? Obviously no. Do I have the right to ask these questions of someone who claims to be a Christian minister? Absolutely, yes.

By the way, I have been happily married for almost 11 years, and I have never been divorced.

executioner · Post by **executioner** » Mon Feb 13, 2006 8:16 am

BeReady wrote:Okay guys, I think some of you are being a little harsh on Unlost. He just asked a question. I don't think Unlost intended to be malicious or spread gossip. If you really felt his question was inappropriate, you shouldn't have taken the time to reply, by now this topic would have fallen to the bottom of the list.

I must admit that I, too, am curious about Greg's divorce. Not because I'm nosey or looking for gossip, but because I believe Greg views his music as a ministry. I'll concede the point about CCM being a business. Those artists who view themselves as simply "artists" don't deserve to be put on a pedestal. But when you start talking about "ministry," that's a new ballgame. The Bible is very clear that those who desire to do ministry through teaching or leading (and you can lead and teach through music) have a higher standard of accountability. (James 3:1; 1 Timothy 3:1-7)

Is Greg's divorce none of my business? On a personal level, it probably is none of my business. But when he presents himself as a minister, and asks me (via advertisement) to support that ministry, I have a right to inquire about his divorce. If he chooses not to answer that question or disclose that information, that is his perogative.

I currently pastor a church in central Illinois. Over the course of my ministry, I have met with numerous "search committees" both as a pastor and minister of music. Just about every one of them asked the question "Are you divorced?" They have that right.

A marriage is a covenant between three persons--man, woman, and God. God's word says that covenant can only be broken under two conditions Adultery (Jesus) and abandonment (Paul). A divorce for any other reason is sin. In that case confession and repentence need to take place. Am I in a position to judge Greg? Obviously no. Do I have the right to ask these questions of someone who claims to be a Christian minister? Absolutely, yes.

By the way, I have been happily married for almost 11 years, and I have never been divorced.

Be Ready you have some greats points that I agree with about accountability. Anyone that uses the Gospel through their music, talents, or spoken word to a mass crowd I believe is held to a higher standard of accountability by God and also SHOULD be by us. Like Be Ready has said there are only 2 reasons why God will accept divorce; I know about this subject because I am divorced because of abandonment and there are leadership positions at my church that I cannot have because of my divorce.

We do have that right to personally ask someone that is in a leadership type ministry about his personal life; If that person so chooses not to answer than I believe for me he/she has lost that effectiveness to lead their ministry. I would NOT support that ministry any longer. Unlost should have personally asked Greg this through email and not come on here and make it public.

unlost · Post by **unlost** » Mon Feb 13, 2006 8:17 am

Divorce is wrong for anyone, not just ministers. Thanks for your input. It's not that I'm asking people to take my side or the "none of your business" side. What I'm questioning is the way Christians are dealing with it- or rather not ealing with it. To me, that is in effect an endorsement of it.

executioner · Post by **executioner** » Mon Feb 13, 2006 8:26 am

unlost wrote: Divorce is wrong for anyone, not just ministers. Thanks for your input. It's not that I'm asking people to take my side or the "none of your business" side. What I'm questioning is the way Christians are dealing with it- or rather not ealing with it. To me, that is in effect an endorsement of it.

Yes it would be like Canada having drug houses set up in communities where the drug users can go to buy illegal drugs so as long as they use those drugs inside that house and not take them out to the public. we are turning our heads towards this issue and many others like homosexaulity.

Unlost,

I don't feel like your original post was wrong but I believe you need to take this issue to the source(Greg) and ask him about this. This is the way it should be handled; After that you can decide for yourself if you can support his ministry or not.

brent · Post by **brent** » Mon Feb 13, 2006 8:35 am

Beready...

Yes churches have every right to ask you that. That is scriptural. But you are the shepard of the local flock. Anyone who is a believer and living it in the body of Christ is a minister. Minister and pastor are not interchangeable.

So, since Greg X is a minister, just as we all are, not an ordained pastor of a local church, and since Petra is a for-profit band in the eyes of the IRS, and not a church, religion, cult, etc., then he is nothing more than a musician/performer ministering through word/song/music.

The verses that deal with the tiers of church leadership are just that. Yes, anyone can be a teacher in everyday life, but church pastors were chosen from the teachers as needed, thus the requirements were more demanding. So I don't think that you can stick Greg into the teacher of the Church mold.

There is no biblical office of the "band" in the local body of Christ. Yes, we are ALL commanded to sing to each other in psalms and hymns, use the musicians on the frontline of the military, etc. Yes we ALL are to give God the glory and represent Him in all that we do. So just as we all are to sing, we all are to minister...the point remains that Greg is NOT held to a higher standard.

I have no memory of Petra ever soliciting funds for Petra. Maybe someone else can prove me wrong, but I don't think so. Petra has been a sponsor itself of the same ministry for years. They solicit funds for that.

executioner · Post by **executioner** » Mon Feb 13, 2006 8:43 am

Matthew RJ wrote:
Yes it would be like Canada having drug houses set up in communities where the drug users can go to buy illegal drugs so as long as they use those drugs inside that house and not take them out to the public. we are turning our heads towards this issue and many others like homosexaulity.

Why oh why did you mention Canada? As if America is a brillant example of a Christian nation! How much $$$ does the pornography industry pull in there? Let's talk gun crime! How about abortion (US laws are even more relaxed than Canada), but of course you also kill your prisoners.

Your reference to Canada had nothing to do with a discussion on divorce in the Church. it was only added to inflame and insult.

This thread should be locked before it goes any further.[/quote/]

I'm sorry you are right USA has many things that we turn our heads to like Abortion and pornography. I was just using that sin as an example. I am sorry about that.

BTW the Bible is very clear about using capital punishment in some cases and also right now in the US there are 7 states that have outlawing abortion(unless the mother's life is in danger) on their election ballots for this next election year. If these pass than I look for the other states to do the same.

Pethead1 · Post by **Pethead1** » Mon Feb 13, 2006 8:46 am

I do not think the mention of Canada was ment to be a bad thing. More like a nextdoor kinda thing.

When a Christian sins it is the local pasters who they are to to be accountbale to. Not the public. Is divorce wrong yes but we also ALL sin every day. Can God still use us yes.

If you have a qustion for anyone about were and why things happen go to them in privet. That is what the Bibls says to do.

executioner · Post by **executioner** » Mon Feb 13, 2006 8:48 am

[quote="brent"]Beready...

Yes churches have every right to ask you that. That is scriptural. But you are the shepard of the local flock. Anyone who is a believer and living it in the body of Christ is a minister. Minister and pastor are not interchangeable.

So, since Greg X is a minister, just as we all are, not an ordained pastor of a local church, and since Petra is a for-profit band in the eyes of the IRS, and not a church, religion, cult, etc., then he is nothing more than a musician/performer ministering through word/song/music.

The verses that deal with the tiers of church leadership are just that. Yes, anyone can be a teacher in everyday life, but church pastors were chosen from the teachers as needed, thus the requirements were more demanding. So I don't think that you can stick Greg into the teacher of the Church mold.

There is no biblical office of the "band" in the local body of Christ. Yes, we are ALL commanded to sing to each other in psalms and hymns, use the musicians on the frontline of the military, etc. Yes we ALL are to give God the glory and represent Him in all that we do. So just as we all are to sing, we all are to minister...the point remains that Greg is NOT held to a higher standard.

I have no memory of Petra ever soliciting funds for Petra. Maybe someone else can prove me wrong, but I don't think so. Petra has been a sponsor itself of the same ministry for years. They solicit funds for that.[/quote

unlost · Post by **unlost** » Mon Feb 13, 2006 9:15 am

I am going to enjoy Greg's music no matter what. Even if someone does some outrageous sin, our response should be to treat them in love. However we need to speak the truth in love as God says.
Love does not stop dealing with the truth as we often prefer.
Here's what Peter Furler of the Newsboys said-

Q: So there was a point when you felt, or your wife felt, that you weren't cut out for marriage?

A: I'm not exempt from the attacks - that same force that comes against everything that the Kingdom of God stands for, and a marriage is part of the kingdom of God . We're joined, and in God's eye's we're one. The word says, ï¿½ï¿½and let nothing come and separate.' Divorce is not restoration.

and:

Peter Furler: On Marriage
by Joanne Brokaw for Christian Activities
3/16/2005

Rochester, NY - Peter Furler, front man for Christian rock band Newsboys, admits that being a nice guy doesnï¿½t necessarily make him a good husband.

ï¿½Sometimes we can try and do things to keep the peace, we can try and do things to gain favor, we can even try to do things just to please people,ï¿½ Furler says. ï¿½That way ends in divorce, ends in heartbreak, ends in anger, ends in betrayal and disappointment - and that was the road I was on heavily for at least 8 years in the marriage.ï¿½

But Furler has learned some principles that he says ï¿½not only restored my marriage but helped it to bloom and flourish.ï¿½ One is to seek first the Kingdom of God.

ï¿½Thereï¿½s a lot of Christians out there getting divorced because they think ï¿½We deserve to be happyï¿½. What a lot of rubbish,ï¿½ Furler insists. ï¿½You donï¿½t deserve happiness in this world. The Bible doesnï¿½t say we deserve it. It says seek first the Kingdom of God and you will find joy, and peace and happiness.ï¿½

Another verse that transformed his marriage was Ephesians 5:25: ï¿½Husbands love your wives as Christ loved the church.ï¿½ Furler says he kind of knew what the verse was saying, didnï¿½t completely understand that concept until he did an in-depth study of the whole book of Ephesians, which revealed to him the principle of loving one another out of reverence for Christ.

Now, he says, ï¿½everything I do for my wife is not to make her happy. I should do [everything] as unto the Lord, and that is pleasing to the Lord. Then that makes her happy.ï¿½

Furler says that understanding what is valuable in life - marriage, relationships, and making disciples, not fame or money - is essential for a healthy marriage. It also helped him to realize that his wife, Summer, is a partner in everything he does; the couple even travels together on their own tour bus when the band is on the road.

ï¿½Everybody can go out into the world and leave their wives home,ï¿½ he says, ï¿½but I think thereï¿½s a tougher standard, and that is to go out with your wife and be partners, and make her feel like sheï¿½s exactly part of what you do.ï¿½

He adds, ï¿½To me, a manï¿½s much more powerful when heï¿½s with his wife.ï¿½
http://www.christianactivities.com/arti ... sp?ID=4402

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Answer this Greg Volz question

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