'The ball got dropped in sixty-two...' (Carman's mistake)

[Michael]

This is ALMOST Petra-related, but not exactly, so I'm posting it in Off-Topic. The "Our Turn Now" song that Petra played on with Carman has an inaccuracy in it that you might want to know about (especially if you are in public school, or have kids who are in public school). This is a brief article by a man who runs voluntary Bible clubs in schools around Tulsa (and plants them elsewhere):

The week of February 12th 2006 God allowed KFCUSA to play a significant role in still another groundbreaking story. The parent sponsors of the clubs in the community of Bixby, OK wanted to give a Bible to every child who attended the clubs on Valentines week. That week the four clubs in that community distributed 520 Bibles at the end of the club!

What makes this event such a significant story is that it further serves to annihilate the myth that the Bible is not allowed in the schools. In fact, if the truth is told not only are students allowed to bring their Bibles to school, but they can read them during lunch or any �non-instructional� time. In fact, contrary to popular opinion, the Bible and Prayer WERE NOT REMOVED FROM THE SCHOOLS IN 1962! I, like many, believed this same lie. The now famous lawsuit filed by deceased atheist Madeline Murry- O�Hare on behalf of her son won the right for any student to �Opt Out� of mandatory prayer and Bible reading in the schools. The catastrophic result of that suit is that our nation has bought and propagated the lie that the Bible and prayer were removed from America�s public schools and it simply isn�t so.

Many have been "banned" from praying in their schools becasue of IGNORANCE. Many more have assumed that the Bible was banned too. Yet, case after case has been won to uphold student right. Sadly, far too many Christian organizations have gone to great lengths in promoting the few cases that were ruled against us. I AM FED UP WITH CHRISTIAN NEGATIVITY. It's time we take the high road and see to it that EVERY postive ruling is publicized instead! This is not "An ostrich in the sand mentality, of the contrary it has been my experience that light ALWAYS overcomes darkness. If we focus on spreading the light I believe it WILL overcome darkness again. Just like it has since the day when "The earth was without form and void; and darkness covered the face of the deep". Then God said, "LET THERE BE LIGHT and LIGHT was". Let's let the light outshine the darkness. My prayer and one of my missions is to wake up Christians and the media (both secular and Christian) to the lie we have both bought and sold for my entire life. I dare you, send your child to school with their Bible in their backpack�they have that right.�bob

Information from: http://www.kfcusa.org/content/view/120/43/

Check out the rest of http://www.kfcusa.org/ to find out about sponsoring or starting a Bible club in your public school!

[Shell]

Yeah, good one. You need to be careful to understand the exact wording of this stuff...Of course, the people who don't want kids to pray in school won't be quick to broadcast there's a choice to do so or not.

[greenchili]

Are you sure that Carman was not referring to....






Public prayer?



As in out loud, by the teacher...

[Michael]

Are you sure that Carman was not referring to....

Public prayer?

As in out loud, by the teacher...

The first lines of the lyric are "The ball got dropped in sixty-two/They wouldn't let children pray in school." So yes, I'm pretty sure that's not what Carman meant.

[Edward]

Also about that time, we had several rallies touring the USA, promoting prayer, return of the government to it's origins, etc. Morgan Cryar had his big hit "Pray in the USA".

Personally, it is my own belief that it doesn't matter what the government does to us (to some extent), because you can always pray silently. Now that we are great toilet bowl of culture and "open minded toleration", I do not want Buddha, Mohamad, etc, etc getting equal time in the class rooms.

If our grandparents had raised our parents correctly, and then our parents raised us correctly, and we were all sold out to Christ, this would be a non-issue. Prayers would have been unstoppable. Abortion would have been unthinkable. The power is not in a formality of spoken words. The power is in the one we petition faithfully.

[Petra24]

Carman has a few songs that are marginally correct but I guess gets a free pass. One that comes to mind is in "The Champion". One of his most popular songs. Last time I checked...Hitler, Napoleon, Capone lived after Jesus death and resurrection! He mentions Pharoah in that line as well so I will give him that. 25% accuracy rate. Must work for the weather channel.

[Michael]

Also about that time, we had several rallies touring the USA, promoting prayer, return of the government to it's origins, etc. Morgan Cryar had his big hit "Pray in the USA".

The difference being that "Pray in the USA" actually says "You can still pray in the USA", and "One day you may hear it, prayin' is a felony." Seems like the Morgan Cryar song has its feet on the ground a little more than the Carman song.

[Jonathan]

Hitler, Napoleon, Capone lived after Jesus death and resurrection!

My guess is that he's referring to their final judgment.

Who's to say those three won't end up in heaven anyway...

[Petra24]

Jonathan---I don't think he (Carman) was talking about the final judgment. If he was then the whole song is messed up. Toward the end of the song he talks/sings about the death of Christ. Wouldn't make sense, IMO.

Hmmm....interesting.

[greenchili]

Well I'd have to look at the words for The Champion again because it has been a while. Jesus did say something like "when moses was I Am", so maybe carman was thinking along those lines.

But I did look at the words for "Our Turn Now" and the only mention of the bible he makes is that you wont find it in a library. Not sure if this is the case or not.

Then there is the above quoted line which appears to be innacurate.

The opening news bit is..

Good evening. This is Charlene Lewis for the 6:00 news. Today, June 25, 1962, the Supreme Court has ruled that school prayer and Bible reading shall cease in all public school systems. It is now official; God has been removed from the classroom in the United States of America

Which is funny because when I was in high school there was a girl who was jehovah witness who had a bible study on after school hours.

Anyways although I wonder about Carman I still find his stuff entertaining in an odd kind a way. He sorta represents a part of the Christian culture which is probably a little much for me. But I still get a laugh out of his music. Plus one has to wonder how true some of his lyrics/experiences are (example: Witches Invitation).

[Enosh]

Ah Carman...


Growing up I actually became quite an expert on most things Carman. Witches Invitation is actually based on events that happened to evangelist Mario Murrillo.

You really have to view Carman for what he was. Entertaining and he lead thousands into the Kingdom of God. He actually put his money where his mouth was in not charging for concerts. There are negative things out there that have been said about him that I don't know if they are true or not so I will not comment on those.

My first concert was the Radically Saved tour. I sang many Carman songs in my younger years. I started off singing Petra but my voice changed and John's range didn't suit me anymore.

I find it funny though to talk about lyrics to the Champion considering the whole song is more of a fictional account of a Rocky style boxing match between Satan and Jesus. This of course complete with Jesus stealing lines from Dirty Harry. (Go ahead, make my day)

I did however always wonder how Jesus won in the song. He doesn't get back up kick Satan's butt. God counts backwards and at one Jesus is declared winner!

Yes, kids have the right to have Bible clubs in school. but at the time the song came out there was a huge push that they shouldn't be allowed. It was argued before the Supreme Court and Christians still have that right. I believe the point was prayer and Bible reading used to be a part of school, after the original decision in '62. Schools began interpreting that to mean the bible was no longer allowed. Huge misconseption of the law, but big enough that people have been decieve ever since. If I had a nickle for everyone who has ever misinterpreted the separation of church and state, I would be a very wealthy man.

Even though the law didn't take it out or stop children from praying, most schools did. That is the point of the song. Prayer as a focal point became a thing of the past, violence, drugs, teen pregnancy, suicide, free love, all that got worse.

All in all I love most of Carman's music. He did lose me after R.I.O.T. A couple of good songs but very simple. Addicted to Jesus and the Standard were good albums. I always liked the fact that he did many styles of music on his albums. He's become a guilty pleasure I still pop in every once in a while.

[greenchili]

All in all I love most of Carman's music. He did lose me after R.I.O.T. A couple of good songs but very simple. Addicted to Jesus and the Standard were good albums. I always liked the fact that he did many styles of music on his albums. He's become a guilty pleasure I still pop in every once in a while.

Funny you should mention that. He kinda lost me after R.I.O.T. as well, and there were not really any songs on that one that I really liked.

Was the cover of R.I.O.T. changed for some reason? I remember seeing a different version than the one that I have in my collection.

[Petra24]

School's have to follow their BOE approved policy. Some may choose to allow Bible Clubs, etc. but if they allow them and a Witchcraft Club or Gay & Lesbian Club, for example, want to meet after or before hours they must allow it. If school's have a limited open forum they may not allow Bible Clubs in the fear that they will have to potentially allow others--like those mentioned above. Most school's that I am familiar with allow Bible Clubs. The district I work for has regular FCA meetings. A G & L Club tried to start up but died out. We would have had to allow them to meet if they would have followed the proper guidelines in becoming an official club. Neither club can be officially "school sponsored" but a faculty member would have to work with the group in order for them to use the school facility.

I guess that was a lot of stuff to say that kids can absolutely pray, read their Bible, etc. in school as long as it is not disruptive to the educational process. Any school who fights this should have their legal consultant on speed dial.

[greenchili]

Yeah I remember all the stuff going on at the time about prayer and school, and the making of "Our Turn Now" and "Pray In The USA" (one of my favorite songs BTW, the original, not that weak rehash).

But it never bothered me. When I wanted to give thanks for my food, I just did it. I wasn't too concerned about what the school would do.

[js3971]

The amazing thing about that decision too is this. After the decision, crime, teenage pregnancey, divorce, murder, and many other negative things just shot of the universe statstically. I've seen Carman and others give historial evidence and statstical evidence of this. Before 1962 those things were a part of our culture, but on a very minute scale. After that decision, they became almost common, expected, and accepted.