Publicity for DVD

[greenchili]

There is no point in me explaining why statistics are unreliable and misleading and typically stacked in the favor of whoever created them.

That is a whole nother discussion, and if you firmly believe in statistics, then no amount of talking is not gonna change that.

All I know is I take statistics with a grain of salt until I know ALL of the details involved with those statistics (like how they were calculated, where/who did they come from, how long of a time period do they cover, what ASSUMPTIONS are made, etc).

If you feel like producing all that information instead of just sayin "Statistics have shown", well then by all means produce them. But I would not be a least bit surprised if all the information I request is part of it.

Like I said not everybody thinks to look on the internet for music. ESPECIALLY CCM music. I would have to say it has only been the last year or so that I've seen any "decent" coverage of CCM music in that area.

Most people I run into do NOT have an internet service, or if they do rarely use it or know where to look.

Go to GMAs website and look at the top sellers for last year. I know that you don't like numbers, but it's all there. The hardest sounding band is either Toby Mac, switchfoot or Jeremy Camp. Hard rock is not selling in the CCM world

I think we are starting to go in circles here. Those numbers only tell me that the industry does NOT understand the CCM market or how to handle it. Until someone that comes along that does, it will always look like that. Mainstream is similar but not nearly as bad, but then it is a much bigger market.

WOW compilations have been top sellers for years now. It is a no brainer. This is where statistics are important. Just because you don't believe them doesn't mean that they aren't true.

Those are not statistics, they are sales figures. They just tell me that WOW has been selling well for a certain amount of years. But they don't tel why, what age group, the purchasers music preferences, sex, denominiational preference, single, married, nothing. I think the key word here is "no brainer" cause someone apparently aint using their brain and are relying on the statistics to do their thinking for them. I dont feel like repeating. Just re-read my above comments in this little post.

re: money changers..

Math 21:12 Then Jesus went into the temple of God and drove out all those who bought and sold in the temple, and overturned the tables of the money-changer and the seats of those who sold doves.

Alright so let me get this right. He thru out the buyers and sellers for no apparent reason (w/exception of dove sellers). Then proceeded to overturn the tables of the money-changers and seats of those who sold doves. After which he gave his speech about 'den of thieves'.

So are you saying the money-changers and dove sellers were in collaboration. Please note that it did not say anything about him driving them out. He did that to the rest of the crowd.

Just wanna make sure we are on the same page here. Thanks.

FWIW my comment about marketing was along the lines of equating marketing with making money. To put my statement a little more in context. But my main point was I've never exactly run into marketers in my church asking me what kind of music I listen to.

Moving along..

It's nice to know that these people in charge know so much based on those statistics. You have completely convinced me that the music industry has no problems at all and that here are no possible solutions to correct those problems.

The people in charge obviously are in the same opinion you are hence nothing can be done. Meanwhile I'll just go on spending my money on these "non-profitable" items as long as I posibly can. Did I ever say it would be interesting to see what happened if the govt started taxing older non-used copyrights like they tax inventory in stores?

I'm just waiting for the next generation to come around wondering where their music went to. I'll be sure to point them to your threads.

Anyways there really is no point in discussing it further. I've seen topics like this before. Certain points are ignored while others are disputed and before you know it in the end you have a bunch of people yelling at eachother. So I'd rather not have it go that route. I didn't want to stir up any dust, just vent a few thoughts and maybe somebody would get something useful out of it.

But just so you know I always find your comments interesting and insightfull. So I'll stick to my meaningless polls and lurking. Feel free to post a follow-up. I just know your dying too.

[whiteshoes]

howdy neighbors! my first post!

it seems like a very simple issue has become quite complicated.
supply and demand. if no one is demanding the product the supply will be limited (not unavailable -but limited...) especially where physical placement at stores is concerned. if you were running a consumer based business would you not stock the top items or those that were being consistently requested by your customers at the expense of lesser sellers? if you didn't you would out of work and just another bum on the street looking for a handout. some of the posts that i've read on this site concern me because they appear to come from some place of entitlement just like a bunch of hippies or commies.

don't get me wrong, i love petra, and i think they leave a magnificent legacy in Christian music. i have supported them by buying the farewell cd and i will also buy the dvd tomorrow. but the point here is that petra isn't on a complilation like wow because they haven't had any radio hits in the past several years. thats what wow is about... it makes you go "WOW" -you don't get selected because you beg like panhandler.

bands of Petra's stature do what THEY want to do. they write their own songs, select their own label and management, packaging, etc... they are not victims. they are business people who also provide a ministry service which is why i support them and tell my friends to buy their stuff too.

ws

[drdpetrany]

I got to spend seven days and nights traveling with Petra on two legs of the Farewell tour. Both John and Bob said the main reason for them retiring now was that there is no airplay for them. Without airplay all the promoting of the album by the label will do no good. The simple truth of the matter was that the DJ's and radio stations pushed them out the door and wanted nothing to do with Petra. This is right from the horses mouth so to speak.

[Michael]

What Bob and John don't realize... or REMEMBER, in Bob's perspective... is that you don't need Christian radio to minister to people. And you don't need "airplay" to have a career in Christian music. And these days, you don't even need airplay to sell CDs. A good online store and an indie release are plenty enough to get you CD sales and gigs to boot. Let me stress that it would need to be a GOOD Web site... not that overhyped, underutilized PetraBand.com site, for sure.

There are scores of musicians playing churches who have been doing it for decades... there is a 3-piece country Christian group that goes to our church that's been gigging for like 30 years. First time I ever heard them I was a teenager in another state. They obviously are surviving on whatever income they make. Obviously Greg X. is doing OK with his indie solo gig. I do think John and Bob have their brains stuck in the 1980s... there are lots of ways to make a living without industry support.

[calicowriter]

First of all, I seriously doubt that these indie bands you are talking about make their entire income on gigs and people buying CDs on the web. Again, somehow, people need to know they even exist to visit their websites to buy their CDs or go to their shows. That is called publicity. Yes, a lot of folks minister without radio airplay. But they don't depend on "ministering" to make their living. There's GHF -- oh but wait, they all have day jobs. There's Greg X Volz -- oh, but he married money. There's Bread of Stone -- but there again, they have a sponsor/money in the family.

Being Petra wasn't a cheap proposition. While they had scaled down their set-up over the years, in order to present themselves in what they felt was an effective way, they still had to have decent equipment, they had to pay to have good musicians, etc. All they while, being available to rehearse and get to gigs limits the types of "regular" jobs they can have. Whether it be by gigs or a regular paying job, they still have mortgages, grocery and utility bills, car payments or maintenance, insurance, clothing.....not to mention the costs of raising a child or three.

Being played on the radio means people know who you are and what you have to offer. When they hear something they like on the radio, they go to stores and buy product. They look to see if you are playing in their town, and perhaps even request their churches or local promoters to bring you to town. It's not impossible to make money without radio airplay, but it is unlikely. And face it, Bob and John are not some twenty-somethings willing to wear the same clothes for several days at a time and sleep in their van.

[greenchili]

Hmmm... no radio airplay.

I guess somethings just never change.