Question about bootlegs

[Edward]

To answer some questions.

1. Petra did their part by making the CD. The distributors did their part to get it out. Let's assume the distributors didn't put it out. There is this little tool called the internet. Anyone can buy anything from anyone, anywhere. If stores WANTED to sell it for a reasonable price, they can get it.

2. Obviuosly Petra cared about the market, but they cannot control what people do with international economies. What should they have done? How could they legislate? How could they change inflation? Get real.

One of my buddies was a tech for Carman. Carman went to Africa. Carman needed duct tape. It was $50 a roll back then. They had to bring over a $3,500 ATA certified road case full of tape. Economies suck. But let's not put the blame on the artists.

What some of you want is socialism or communism economically.

[executioner]

To answer some questions.

1. Petra did their part by making the CD. The distributors did their part to get it out. Let's assume the distributors didn't put it out. There is this little tool called the internet. Anyone can buy anything from anyone, anywhere. If stores WANTED to sell it for a reasonable price, they can get it.

2. Obviuosly Petra cared about the market, but they cannot control what people do with international economies. What should they have done? How could they legislate? How could they change inflation? Get real.

One of my buddies was a tech for Carman. Carman went to Africa. Carman needed duct tape. It was $50 a roll back then. They had to bring over a $3,500 ATA certified road case full of tape. Economies suck. But let's not put the blame on the artists.

What some of you want is socialism or communism economically.

I personally feel that everyone that is involved is somewhat responsible including the band. It is obvious the distribitor they used was either not qualified or not honest about the situation south of the border. It is Petra, Inpop, and managements responsiblilty to make sure their name gets put out there correctly. I know if I was Bob I would have had my hands in all that because that is his name.

[brent]

You guys have it all wrong. Distributors distribute. They do not market. That is the marketing department's job. All a CBA distributor does is wharehouse product, ship it, collect the funds, handle returns, etc. They are who the retailer purchases from. You only get a distributor to pimp your stuff IF you can prove:

1. Sales track record
2. Advertising/marketing
3. Tour support to generate store traffic

Foreign markets are all funky compared to the US. Not all countries have retailers. Not all of the retailers are in prime locations. Not all of the countries have Christian radio. The band believes that they did what they could to get the Spanish CDs out. The distributor did what they are supposed to, and that is send to the stores that ordered them. You guys are not faulting the retailers at all, and local economies at all. Here you have the biggest selling, most widely recognized Christian band in the
world, and no place to buy it? Come on.

PDC was sold 99% to foreign markets. We have orders from countries at war, with no running water in some parts. If people want it, they will seek it out and get it one way or another. And we sold it to them directly for the same price as the US consumers paid, and we ate the freight. We think that if someone wants our stuff they should get it. We have no less dedication than Petra had.

[BForm]

If the issue was distribution, here's a question for someone in the know. Was Petra able to sell many CD's at their South American concerts or were they too difficult to get into the country? If they could have gotten them in, you would think they would have flown off the shelves (or table).

[darthpethead]

Well.. me personally I have no probs with copying. My philosophy is, the bands have made tons of money off of their records anyway. What is another 15 dollars? Anyway, here is where I would not do it. If a band that I listen to said that they do not want their music copied I have enough respect for them not to do it, that to me is stealing. Christian bands, money should not be their main concern anyway. Now that does not mean that I would take advantage of that fact. I buy more records than I copy so I am not in the business of copying instead of buying. I actually only copy concert material and a few albums I get from the library. If I was in a Christian band I would be more concerned about the Gospel than wether my music is being copied thats me anyway, some of you may disagree.

Ask yourself this ?

If copying is so wrong why do libraries offer to check out dvds and cds at no charge?

[greenchili]

/me sits in a lawn chair with some popcorn and watches the fireworks.

[Jonathan]

Well.. me personally I have no probs with copying. My philosophy is, the bands have made tons of money off of their records anyway. What is another 15 dollars? Anyway, here is where I would not do it. If a band that I listen to said that they do not want their music copied I have enough respect for them not to do it, that to me is stealing. Christian bands, money should not be their main concern anyway. Now that does not mean that I would take advantage of that fact. I buy more records than I copy so I am not in the business of copying instead of buying. I actually only copy concert material and a few albums I get from the library. If I was in a Christian band I would be more concerned about the Gospel than wether my music is being copied thats me anyway, some of you may disagree.

Ask yourself this ?

If copying is so wrong why do libraries offer to check out dvds and cds at no charge?

I've broken the law hundreds of times...speeding, lane change without a signal, shoplifting, grand theft auto, internet crimes. I wasn't charged with any of them, so it must have been ok. Plus, I only killed a few people, so it wasn't like I was out there going Columbine everywhere.

I think, since God will provide my money and my sustenance, I should just refuse any pay that my work will give me, since I am there to be a light.

[epdc]

michael, YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT!!!!!!!!

The petra praise in spanish is VERY HARD TO GET IN MEXICO and the jecklyll and hyde is not even in the country, i have it because a pethead gave me an original as a present.

i�m not being realitve edward about talking about realities here. My reality in mexico is that is not easy to get petra cd�s and my reality is that some cd�s can cost you 20 dollars here (200 pesos, and that�s very expensicve)

your american reality is different.- is easier to get stuff and even in very good prices.

[epdc]

and talking about internet sales, in mexico we are not still used to buy things through internet, in my culture (believe it or not) we still kinda not trust on internet sales, many people i know don�t have credit cards and are not sure of how to buy through internet, FOR GOD�S SAKE we don�t even buy things per catalog or over the phone!!!!

of course, you as american who is living a different reality is easier for you to judge.

[Petrapraise]

Can you buy thing off Ebay in Mexico? If so, that would be a possible avenue to purchase CD's and other stuff.

[gman]

well, right and wrong are not based on one's own reality, or in what country they live. When it comes to doing what is right, it may be easier here in the U.S., but the Bible doesn't teach that we should only do the right thing when it is easy. It was made clear that the early Christians would have to endure much for following God and the scriptures; that it would not be easy.
Some issues, like divorce, are a growing problem in the church because people are buying into the idea that there is no ultimate right or wrong, and they are basing or justifying their decisions on their own reality and experience.

[greenchili]

Some issues, like divorce, are a growing problem in the church because people are buying into the idea that there is no ultimate right or wrong, and they are basing or justifying their decisions on their own reality and experience.

I'm not applying this to divorce, or necessarily the topic of this thread.

But that above phrase is becoming alarmingly true these days.

Experience based morals.

Noticed this trend myself about 4 years ago.

[charl]

Libraries are protected by copyright law-libraries pre-date copyright law for heaven's sake. In Canada, you may copy 30% of a published work you borrow.

Now, the law saying something is wrong does not necessarily mean it is a universal wrong. There have been many laws that were incorrect throughout history. In the case of intellectual property, I do believe the laws, while starting with good intentions, have gotten quite out of hand.

I do not like the equating of intellectual property with stealing either, that is dishonest to me. It is not nearly as clear cut as those who are suing everyone for copyright infringement would like it to be.


Whether or not we copy aside, much of the blame for the phenomenon must go to the record industry. They had a monopoly and used it to get rid of singles so they could make more income. They dumped any artist who was not making tons of money for them rightnow. They raised prices sky high-totally ignoring the law of supply and demand in the process, and then whined about how everyone was stealing. Many people felt it was more a case of concordance for tat-using the same logic, haven't the record companies been 'stealing' from fans for years? That is the feeling of many who are doing this.


As for me, as I have said in many discussions of this type:
I would rather have the actual product with liner notes, etc, included, than a crappy burned copy.
But I won't buy something that costs far more than it's worth.
I'm not going to buy an album for one song.
And I don't like the idea of having to re-buy albums I already own (which, I am convinced is why the record industry made CD's so friggin crappy-so we'd have to go out and buy them several times ).
I also miss trading fun mix albums!!
And lastly, hopefully there is a special place in the 12th level of hell for record execs. They take all that is good and wreck it.
That's about it.

BTW (okay that wasn't it), I know some indie musicians who love the file sharing phenomenon, because it puts them out there, and often gets a return in fans who will indeed buy the albums and more importantly, go to shows. They say they make more money there anyway. So there are two sides to see it from. Would all the Spanish Petra fans have been fans and gone to the shows where they knew all the words without the bootlegs? Maybe, maybe not.

[brent]

and talking about internet sales, in mexico we are not still used to buy things through internet, in my culture (believe it or not) we still kinda not trust on internet sales, many people i know don�t have credit cards and are not sure of how to buy through internet, FOR GOD�S SAKE we don�t even buy things per catalog or over the phone!!!!

of course, you as american who is living a different reality is easier for you to judge.

1. There are way over 34 million people on the internet down there.
2. Latin and South American online media is the hottest growing segment of broadcasting industry.
3. There have been issues with the Mexican government regulating trade. You can do a Google for info on that, or go to your government's website. But, can you expect them to regulate the internet any better than brick and mortar businesses? Hardly. No government can.
4. The biggest problem that we have (actually our distributors have) with sending product down there is theft. We have had orders evaporate off of the face of the planet, only to see CDs that we haven't released yet, for sale on the internet.

[brent]

The petra praise in spanish is VERY HARD TO GET IN MEXICO and the jecklyll and hyde is not even in the country, i have it because a pethead gave me an original as a present.

34 Million people have access to the internet and can download it from iTunes. The spanish version of J&H was available on iTunes long before the english version was.

Get used to internet distribution. It is the way 90% of ALL music is sold. One day direct artist to listener purchasing will be the norm. No more middle man.