management

wallytheman · Post by **wallytheman** » Thu Sep 16, 2004 1:25 pm

How many on this board ever been in a management position? It seems some on this board keep harping about Petra's managment. A Managers job is not an easy one. Petra has hired (paid money) to have a person conduct their affairs. That is Petra's decision and Petra's alone to make. If Petra was not happy with their management they would get rid of them. We as fans should not think we know better. We also do not need to know everything all the time. All we need to do is support petra with prayer, attend concerts and buy their music and merch. Our only privilage is to be able to listen and experience what Petra is doing.

Some of the conduct on this board i think has been nothing but detramental to the band. For instance, sharing of copyrighted materials. If you do not own the rights to or have permission to copy materials example dvds, cds, videos, tv programs, etc. do not share them. Also gossip and speculation about the band can only hurt it. If Petra wants us to know something they will tell us.

Shell · Post by **Shell** » Thu Sep 16, 2004 2:54 pm

Valid points, and it is up to them who they work with. But for the most part what I see are people simply wanting information about concerts. Isn't that part of managements job too, is to make sure the public has current concert information? Petraband.com and Inpop.com are pathetic. It can only hurt the band too, if people don't have information they need to go to the concerts.

There is a place to speak up when stuff that's not right is going on, Wally, and I think people have been civil about it. Nobody is slamming anyone or trying to tell the guys who or who not to work with, they just want to know about the concerts.

spottacus · Post by **spottacus** » Thu Sep 16, 2004 4:49 pm

Some people have been very critical (and personal) in their criticisms, and I hope I haven't been that way.

But it really is discouraging to see what appears to be a haphazard job being done. On the other hand, Wayne's job is probably a lot more complicated and time-consuming than it appears to be. Most are.

Corval · Post by **Corval** » Thu Sep 16, 2004 6:26 pm

Well I agree with Shell.

Sometimes someone could be critical but we try to help PETRA. I have been parto of Brazil's shows in april and I could see how hard is everything. I have my own opinios about all but I will never make gossip of this.

Artur

LexingtonPethead · Post by **LexingtonPethead** » Thu Sep 16, 2004 9:45 pm

wallytheman wrote:Some of the conduct on this board i think has been nothing but detramental to the band. For instance, sharing of copyrighted materials. If you do not own the rights to or have permission to copy materials example dvds, cds, videos, tv programs, etc. do not share them. Also gossip and speculation about the band can only hurt it. If Petra wants us to know something they will tell us.

I guess I take issue with these statements. I can't think of a single incident where copyrighted material was distributed on the Zone. Virtually everyone here respects copyright laws, and virtually no one here would want to deny Petra of hard-earned money. The videos I've seen have been ones shown on TV - and not in real high quality - at least the ones I can recall. So I really don't think there's justification for accusing anyone of being a pirate.

And if there was something distributed, then it's probably because it's out of print... like "Couldn't Find Love (without you) and "Magic Words" from Washes Whiter Than.

And, I really don't see how speculating about - for example - the next Petra album is hurting the band. Or speculating about concerts. Or even speculations about Petra's revolving door during the 90's or the parting of the Elefantes. I think if anything, this helps educate people about the band's history and heightens fanbase interest in learning as much about Petra as possible.

People may get nit-picky once in a while about Petra's management, but that's because Petra's our band. We care about Petra's ministry and want it and the band to thrive. We want to see Petra's ministry continue for a very long time to come. So if you ask me, we have a right to be concerned or picky about deficiencies we see in Petra's marketing or management.

wallytheman · Post by **wallytheman** » Fri Sep 17, 2004 11:36 am

lexingtonpethead said:

People may get nit-picky once in a while about Petra's management, but that's because Petra's our band. We care about Petra's ministry and want it and the band to thrive. We want to see Petra's ministry continue for a very long time to come. So if you ask me, we have a right to be concerned or picky about deficiencies we see in Petra's marketing or management.

i take issue with the statement "Petra's our band" what credentials give you claim to Petra being your band? just because you are a fan does not give you that claim.

tv programs are copyrighten. the copyright owner is the person who produces the program.

out of print materials are still copywrite protected. you can reference the library of congress documents to find this out.

http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-d ... l#duration

How long does a copyright last?
The term of copyright for a particular work depends on several factors, including whether it has been published, and, if so, the date of first publication. As a general rule, for works created after Jan. 1, 1978, copyright protection lasts for the life of the author plus an additional 70 years. For an anonymous work, a pseudonymous work, or a work made for hire, the copyright endures for a term of 95 years from the year of its first publication or a term of 120 years from the year of its creation, whichever expires first. For works first published prior to 1978, the term will vary depending on several factors. To determine the length of copyright protection for a particular work, consult chapter 3 of the Copyright Act (title 17 of the United States Code). More information on the term of copyright can be found in Circular 15a, Duration of Copyright, and Circular 1, Copyright Basics.

As far as concert info goes i have simpathy.

calicowriter · Post by **calicowriter** » Fri Sep 17, 2004 12:15 pm

I am afraid I don't have anything particularly astute to add, but I can say this: I have never known anyone who closely followed a performer who was happy with that performer's management. I think the biggest problem is the perception of job description. It seems most managers feel their most important task is to make the artist happy and make the artist money. Some managers take the view that although they may be taking some lumps on internet message boards, the number of people who participate on these boards is a small percentage of the artist's total fanbase. It just doesn't seem to be a priority for many of these folks. It has also been my experience that many managers are NOT internet-savy, or interested in becoming savy. Personally I think it is a shame that many managers don't cultivate better relationships with the people who run websites for their artists. For one thing, it is free publicity. And, if they are not interested in maintaining a web presence, these webmasters can fill that gap.

I DO think it is harsh to judge people on this board regarding "copyrighted" material. I think most folks here are sensitive to the rights of the creators of these works, and if a request was made to cease and desist, they would. You know, technically, each translation of the Bible is copyrighted. Perhaps we should not quote the Bible without proper permissions?

Shell · Post by **Shell** » Fri Sep 17, 2004 12:50 pm

Good observation, Bridget; you're probably right. The Internet is a good promotional tool, and it is a shame they don't make better use of it, or work with webmasters if they don't have the time or inclination to mess with the Internet themselves.

Enosh · Post by **Enosh** » Fri Sep 17, 2004 1:10 pm

Wow, Wally's sounds like a post I made on the "Old Zone"

I understand why people say things Like, "Petra's my band." there are bands that bring out that kind of emotion in their fans, and Petra is one of them. The problem is although you may feel like that, Wally is correct in saying we don't have a right to any of the things that Petheads have demanded to know or said they have the right to. Buy the albums, go to concerts, pray for them. We probably have more personal contact with the band we love than any other big band of that type. I don't think that's always a good thing.

Look at the whole Louie thing. An actuall post stated that, "Management had 10 days to devulge information or else!" That is rediculous! Nobody has the right to demand anything of Petra or management. People have emailed me telling me to, "Ask John this, And what's up with that?" I have been brought into the middle having been a friend of the Zone, and now having been part of AndBand and playing with John. There's a difference in wanting to know something and having a right to know it. As fans, and Christians we must learn to show Tact and respect. Like it or not, there has in the past been a lack of both of those things when it comes to Petra's personal business, and management.

Do some of you really believe that Petra has no idea what's going on with their ministry? As Wally said, They hired these people. John and Bob have been doing this for a long time. They have a goal and I tell you this, you may not like everything that is done, but it's working!

1. We got Jeckyl and Hyde: Something that none of us would have had if Petra and their management wouldn't have continued in the direction they had established.

2. Everybody talks about shows. Thank God you have shows to discuss. The last 3-4 years haven't been as full of concerts as they are now! They've done more shows this summer for fan's to complain about not knowing about than shows done in the previous two years for fans to go to! Who do you think is responsible for that?

3. Another "Rock" album to look forward to. Hello, no more Praise and Worship or acoustic Cd's in the near future!

I think part of the problem with Petra's management can be likened to the reasons some people don't like President Bush. Bush came in as the Problems Clinton had made started to blossom. Then 9/11 came. Wow, the economy went down. Really Sherlock? I'm glad you can add but it's not all Bush's fault. Like Bush could have done anything to stop the economy from going the way it went. But now it's making a big comeback and there are more jobs because of plans put into action that take time. And I for one am better off than I was four years ago.

Same with Petra's management. Everybody acts like the problems that had been made should all get solved overnight and you're gonna like every decision made. Sorry, it doesn't happen that way. Hard decisions were made. Management was put into place and now we are reaping the benefits of that. Although some would still like to complain and say that everything bad is managements fault, what about all the good we have reaped from this management? Our fan statis is better now than it was four years ago. People are starting to respect Petra again, and another good album will help strengthen that!

Copyright is something I deal with everyday in the work I do. Although it's cool to get stuff for free, I don't think it's right unless the artist wants you to have it. Most of the stuff offered has been on John's site. I don't see that as a problem, and from the posts I have seen on the Zone about the topic i do believe that most Petheads respect the Copyright and are not trying to get around paying for it. Wally recieved permission to film copyrighted material during the John/AndBand and use it. Now wether everyone has a right to have a copy of that is a different story.

Just my $Buck.50

LexingtonPethead · Post by **LexingtonPethead** » Fri Sep 17, 2004 2:17 pm

I think Enosh is right on a lot of points. I think where some of the confusion lies is the assumption that people think management is doing everything wrong. I don't think anyone has made that kind of statement on the Zone, nor do I think anyone actually thinks that.

Of course, people have the right to complain when something as simple as a concert schedule is inaccurate on the bands "official" website. I do business to business sales for a living, and I can tell you firsthand - when it comes to success, everything counts.

The point about wanting to know and needing to know - I agree with this wholeheartedly, not that what I think matters. But my point is that there will always be people like that (who think they need to know).

As for copyrights... I still say it's a far stretch to say or imply that any of the Petheads on the Zone is infringing on copyright laws. I would be making a more accurate statement by saying it doesn't happen at all than to say otherwise. I just don't know why anyone would do that, especially to a band like Petra that they love.

We've had discussions on file sharing before on the Zone. Virtually everyone felt the same way about it: it's stealing.

spottacus · Post by **spottacus** » Fri Sep 17, 2004 4:34 pm

I'm surprised to hear anyone say that there hasn't been harsh and contemptuous criticism of Petra's management on the zone. I've read statements here that are very judgemental and that upset me.

Things are generally better now, but I really believe that Wayne and whoever helps him is working hard, doing the things that are most important to the band. His job has got to be very complex and he has to work hard to accomplish what he does. The fact that not every important thing gets done is probably more a reflection on his workload than his effort.

LexingtonPethead · Post by **LexingtonPethead** » Fri Sep 17, 2004 10:54 pm

spottacus wrote:I'm surprised to hear anyone say that there hasn't been harsh and contemptuous criticism of Petra's management on the zone.

Spot, if you're referring to me - that's not what I said. I was responding to an implication made early on that seemed to indict the Zone for being overly critical of Wayne's management, as if to say he hasn't done anything right. I didn't say there hasn't been harsh criticism. Some of it has been harsh, but it's been selective, not all-encompassing. That's the point I was trying to make earlier.

I think most would agree that Wayne is doing a lot of good things for Petra; but at the same time, there have been valid complaints. For example, Petraband.com. Personally, there's no excuse for having incomplete, inaccurate information at this stage. I could understand when the site first went up, but to have so much wrong with it at this point is neglect. If anyone thinks I'm being harsh by being honest about it, then I'm guilty as charged.

epdc · Post by **epdc** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 4:12 pm

You have to mention politics here!!! (Bush), NO COMMENTS AT ALL PLEASE.

Let`s be realistic, yeah, management has done very good things for Petra, I don`t have any doubts of it. But we gotta admit there`s stuff that many of us as seen or noted it that we just don`t think is right. and hey, is just not only one person saying it but MANY, don`t you think that maybe there`s something in there?.

We don`t have right to tell the band what to do unless they ask us for opinion but I don`t think there`s something wrong in talk about it ya know, that we share our thoughts between us.

I`m not talking bad about management but I`m not "idealizing" (is that correct? ya know, like having a high concept of them) them because I`m realistic, yeah, I thank God for what they have done for Petra but we gotta admit that some things are not right, that`s all. I`m not dsaying we gotta rebel (hahahahaha), but there`s nothing wrong in beaing honest to ourselves, management is not perfect, only God is.

Only thing i can think of is praying for management, for God gives them the wisdom to do what`s the best for the ministry. and if you feel in your heart this, to pray God shows us the way or show someone the way of talking to them about it, I DON`T KNOW!

, ya know what I mean? that if it`s His will, to open a door so someone could discuss this (in case someone of some be like they really wanna discuss this).

Enosh · Post by **Enosh** » Mon Sep 20, 2004 8:04 am

Elo,

That's one of the things I'm talking about. We as fans don't have the right to say anything to management about how we feel they are handleing Petra's business. They are Petra's management, not ours.

Let's just break it down for a second shall we. Let's say you hire someone to promote your dancing. You feel that they are doing the job you hired them to do. Now I come along and start posting all kinds of negative things about the people "You Chose" to represent you. You make the decision to keep them because you feel that they are doing a great job. But i as a fan don't agree with the decision you made so I begin painting this negative picture about the people you hired for your business. Than everyone who comes to your fan website who wants info on their favorite dancer reads the negative things how your management did this or that wrong. That now paints you in two lights.

1. You are ignorant to what is really going on, and all your fans know better than you.

2. You have a bunch of jerks working for you and you don't care.

That is unfair because you see the day to day things that go on. You made the decision to keep these people and now it makes you look bad to keep them because a bunch of people who don't know the whole story are painting this negative picture.

Do you see how that is what goes on many times here on the Zone? I'm not pointing my finger at any one person, and I love everyone on the Zone with all my heart. This is a great place to meet people who share many interests and also to meet people who disagree. (I'm sorry Elo that you don't share my feelings for Bush. I have my opinions and you have yours.)

But it all comes down to the fact that we love God, and we love Petra. I just see how all the negativity can only hurt the ministry we love and respect so much. Point being, when you talk about management, you're talking about Petra. That's just how it is. Management is an extension of the band, hired by the band to take care of band business. It's not for us to say how they are doing their job. That's for Petra to decide. They are the band.

Shell · Post by **Shell** » Mon Sep 20, 2004 8:37 am

Okay, I agree that who they work with is up to them, and being negative doesn't accomplish anything. But what about when people go to the website and aren't able to get the information they need? How does that look? That's what a lot of the problem is here, people aren't getting information about concerts. I think that's all anyone is trying to say, Enosh; I don't think anyone is trying to tell the guys who or who not to work with.

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management

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Re: management

petra is not your band!

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