management

spottacus · Post by **spottacus** » Mon Sep 20, 2004 11:25 am

But some people are "overly" critical and some people are "trying to tell the guys who or who not to work with." This has happened, and it's useless - it probably works against the band if any outsiders find it and read it. And it certainly doesn't reflect well on the believers who post it.

Look, I've been unhappy (very unhappy) at times with Petra's management. But let's not deny that there's been some real over-the-top criticism of Wayne and his outfit by people who frequent the zone.

Enosh · Post by **Enosh** » Mon Sep 20, 2004 11:26 am

Shell,

I know it can be frustrating when you want to go see Petra and don't know when they'll be where. Some of the complaints might be in that direction, but over the last 3 years those have not been the kind of things stated.

People have made calls for Petra to change management on the Zone several times. People have made demands of management to reveal information that they "claimed" they have the right to know. There have also been terrible things said about Wayne that I believe are just not waranted, or that should not be discussed. It has happened alot. Even if it's not always a huge staement, there are little jibes throw in here and there that people say about management. It should stop for the good of the band.

If a promoter has a problem with management while booking a show, then the professional thing to do is keep it between the promoter and management and try to work it out. If someone has a problem with Wayne or anyone else it should not be posted on this board. That starts people talking, which leads to gossip, which leads to people who don't even know who Wayne or management is to start thinking, "Man, Petra has some creeps working for them." All i'm saying is that that isn't fair and it's not how Christians should do business. If you see something wrong with Petra or their management it should be given to God in your prayer time, not posted on the Zone for literally the whole world to see.

I don't see that all the complaints are just about concerts. But the truth is that I have never seen a band or artist that has every show they do, absolutely, all of the time, posted for the fans to see. Sometimes it's just impossible to update or keep track of. From what i've seen people always end up finding out about shows from this zone even if it's not on petraband.com.

I'm not saying that everybody does it, or that people have not pointed out things that maybe could run better in some areas. All I'm saying is we are fans, we don't really know how or what is going on behind the scenes. It's easy to criticize when it's not our job. I believe that we should stick to talking about, praying for and suppoting our favorite band, and stay away from topics that are possibly damaging and based on speculation.

In love

LexingtonPethead · Post by **LexingtonPethead** » Mon Sep 20, 2004 2:30 pm

Shell and Enosh are both right. The crux of it - I think it comes down to CERTAIN things, instead of every little thing. Like Shell said, Petraband.com not having accurate concert information. Let's face it, a lot of fans out there may not know where to look for concerts. Sue D had to tell me and others here that Petra was coming to Somerset,KY... it was not posted, to my knowledge, on the Petraband site.

On the other hand, we're all very glad that Petra is touring much more than they have in recent years and that they had J&H last year and a follow-up rock CD coming soon. I think we would all agree we have Petra's management to thank for that.

Because of this, I don't think anyone is complaining about the TOTALITY of Petra's management, but clearly, some things could be improved. I think the harshness has come from the fact that nothing has been done to fix these problems after months and months of discussion.

epdc · Post by **epdc** » Mon Sep 20, 2004 2:50 pm

I`m agree with you Enosh in your point that you said that we don`t have any right to tell the band who to hire and who not ya know. As you said we don`t know EVERYTHING (and Petra is not forced to tell us anything too). But I just think that if many people is complaining is for a reason. If only one were complaining we would be like "oh, he had a bad experience or something like that" but if many people has seen that for example, the website is not working the way it should (that`s the only thing I can remember right now) it means something.

If I had a manager

(ya know it would be funny hehe

, never thought in hiring one) and I receive complains or see that many people is complaining about his or her job I would see what`s going on or at least would talk to him/her about it.

But, we don`t know everything as some has said here. Who knows? maybe the band HAVE talked to him or them and there`s a reason of why they keep acting the way they do. As some as said, all we can do is pray...

and ya know what enosh??? YOU ARE RIGHT, what`s the point of talking about this in first place?

, I mean, if we are planning to write a complain letter with all our signatures for giving it to John for example then it would be worth the discussion but I really doubt someone here will do that hehehe so ya know, if we think about it, we are going NOWHERE!!!!!

SamScales · Post by **SamScales** » Mon Sep 20, 2004 4:15 pm

I agree with Enosh on the pray more talk less (gossip) issue. If we all would pray for GOD to work things out - man, stuff really would happen. I think they did when we used to fast and pray every month for a couple of years. God answered that, we got Jekyll & Hyde - with a possible next record in the works. PETRA's not done and not finished yet.

If we hear of problems arising within a certain area in ministry, then we really need to pray for that person or situation, cos if God handles it, it's gonna be for the good of the whole situation, if man tries to do it man's way, it usually will always fail. God can touch a heart and will, if we just pray and trust Him to move.

In the meanwhile, it's amazing to me how through communication on this board people DO find out where the gigs are! Maybe that's God's way of helping us out till things will be smooth on petraband.com???

LexingtonPethead · Post by **LexingtonPethead** » Mon Sep 20, 2004 5:01 pm

SamScales wrote:it's amazing to me how through communication on this board people DO find out where the gigs are! Maybe that's God's way of helping us out till things will be smooth on petraband.com???

I like the way you explain that, Sam. You are so right. Even though we may bicker about the details, God is using the Zone to further Petra's ministry in so many ways. The resources that are available to anyone who checks out the Zone to find out what Petra's doing and where they'll be next are so rich.

Pethead1 · Post by **Pethead1** » Mon Sep 20, 2004 10:52 pm

As Petheads we are kinda over the top anyway. Most of us have been fans for 20 or more years.

I would love it if like in the past we had records out every year and they were almost always close enough to see at least 2 or 3 times a year. Times changes people change and we just want to keep Petra .

As times change so does music. There is just so many more bands now and not enough time to see all of them nor money to see them all. So there you go. I have no clue if I have typed this the way I wanted to but I hope it is clear.

Just the ramblings of a old pathead.

Michael · Post by **Michael** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 7:39 am

Enosh,

You're right... we HAVE seen some weird "demands" that Petra fire management or whatever. That's totally ludicrous... we might as well send Bob and John a letter pasted together from words cut out of a magazine. How that could be a help to anyone, I have no idea. But this is a DISCUSSION forum, after all. I think it's OK to discuss things now and then.

As to the concert dates... surely someone has a list of confirmed dates on their desk. SURELY someone knows where Petra will be playing in the next month. And they do have a list of fan emails, with probably just everyone's email on this board. How hard would it be to send out an email once a month? Or send it to Sue D. ...she has an email list of John's fans. Or post it here, for crying out loud. Any of those avenues of communication would be (1) good for ticket sales, (2) basically free to Petra, and (3) take minimal time to do. Is that asking too much? I have to applaud Josh and Sue for being so proactive that they find out about these things without any help at all from the gatekeepers of this information, but really... they shouldn't have to.

I guess all I'm saying is that this is a free forum for people to say what they feel. I don't think we should just shut up and keep it to ourselves, because that negates the whole purpose of having an avenue for communication, but I do think, with you, that we should be careful what we say. I get frustrated myself and get either very close to the line or just over it, depending on your perspective

... but I do try to be careful with what I say, and I think others do the same (maybe not EVERYONE, but most). I've actually been very encouraged by the words of some of the peacemakers on this forum... Enosh, you being one, and Shell, you being another... and there are others.

As long as everyone remembers: we don't know the whole story. We have to take things at face value and not assume too much. And, it doesn't make any sense to rant and rave; cool it and things will turn out OK.

(By the way... I don't think we have "management" to thank for the rock CD. I think the "management" everyone talks about has more to do with booking and touring. I get the impression that Bob keeps a pretty close rein on the music, and Inpop was who gave them the green light on the CD. We CAN thank management, I would say, for more concerts this year. Go, Petra management!!)

Shell · Post by **Shell** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 2:00 pm

Hehe. Letters from words pasted together out of magazines? Now there's a concept...I've been around John enough I think I can say that wouldn't go over too well. LOL. Thank you for the compliment by the way.

There is a place to discuss things and disagree sometimes, but a little insight into human nature: It's normal to resent the idea of someone implying you don't know what you're doing, and with the added pressure of being in the entertainment industry, they probably go stir crazy sometimes. I don't think anyone has overdone it this time around (things have actually been pretty civil...I'm proud of everyone).

But I will agree things have gotten out of hand sometimes. I believe everyone cares about Petra and wants to be helpful, but I think we all need to keep in mind the best thing we could do to be helpful is pray for them. When it gets right down to it, they're the ones who are responsible for whatever decisions they make, and they will reap the consequences of those decisions. You can't please everyone, and if that's what they were trying to do, they would be in trouble.

I guess what I'm trying to say...And I've said it before...Is ask yourself before you post something what you're hoping to accomplish, and if it's better left unsaid, don't post it.

sue d. · Post by **sue d.** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 5:35 pm

Enosh wrote

But the truth is that I have never seen a band or artist that has every show they do, absolutely, all of the time, posted for the fans to see. Sometimes it's just impossible to update or keep track of.

As a manager, one HAS to keep track of the dates, venues, contacts, etc. All the details are in the contracts. Keeping track is part of a manager's job. That's how the band knows where to go to do a show.

Giving out the info to webmasters who run official sites is also part of a manager's job.

As far as the ability of a non-html-saavy person to post current dates on an official website, that's what scripts are for. It's not an impossibility. Ask me. Ask MJ who made the scripts. It's altogether possible.

MJ wrote:

I have to applaud Josh and Sue for being so proactive that they find out about these things without any help at all from the gatekeepers of this information, but really... they shouldn't have to.

I agree. It takes a lot of time to dig and find this information... after all, when it comes to websites - none of us are getting paid by the hour - or otherwise - to do this. Just a little co-operation would be nice... not to mention very beneficial for the band's attendance figures.

Shell · Post by **Shell** » Wed Sep 22, 2004 9:46 am

Good post Sue.

epdc · Post by **epdc** » Wed Sep 22, 2004 9:49 pm

hehehe, just kidding

that`s exactly my point!!!! yeah, I know and understand that this discussion might lead to nowhere (hehehe) but I don`t think there`s nothing wrong in saying what we think. What are we suppose to do? to pretend everything is perfect and never speak what we have in our minds?.

There`s nothing wrong about talking this way about management, we are being realistic, is not like we are lying ya know. And if management of the band gets to read all this the better!!! is good for the band that they know their fans (I think), if I were a whole pro dancer (hehehe) and my fans think that my management is not doing a good job, I would like to know. After all, the fans are the ones that would go to see me and buy my mmmmmm dance cd`s? LOL.

If management werenp`t doing things properly, like not giving the all the neccesary info the fans need (like dates and stuff ya know, nothing personal) that would affect the band too.

In my last church if we weren`t agree with our leader the rule was "shut up and obey" WHAT`S UP WITH THAT? and if we wanted to complain we had to do it in secret with other friends, I mean, what`s up????

I don`t think is right to say "don`t judge, don`t talk bad about them" is not like we are talking bad about ANYONE we just have some doubts of what`s going on.

epdc · Post by **epdc** » Wed Sep 22, 2004 9:57 pm

i put reply by mistake.

I don`t mean they HAVE to explain us anything but I think is great if the band or management read our complaints so then they do something about it. We are not asking unfair or impossible stuff.- we just want things be done since that`s management job.

Enosh · Post by **Enosh** » Thu Sep 23, 2004 11:07 am

If you have a "Complaint" It should made then to the people it's about. The problem I see is that this is a mesage board that the whole world sees. That is not how you would want someone to point out something they feel you're doing wrong, and on top of that Petra doesn't feel you're doing it wrong.

It makes Petra look bad when their management is bashed. It's a direct reflection of them. People all post their complaints here because it's easy to do. And if management sees it so what right? I'd like to see how many people would actually send a personal email to members of management listing their complaints. Half of the complainers wouldn't because they know deep down that it's not that big of a deal. Posting ideas off the top of your head, or complaints based on gossip or hearsay information on a messege board for the world to see without first hand knowledge of circumstances, or situations just isn't cool. It's also not Christ Like. Again this is not directed at anyone in particular, I'm just commenting overall about discussions that have taken place over a long period of time.

Enosh

String · Post by **String** » Thu Sep 23, 2004 12:49 pm

And why has this topic flaired up for the umteenth time? Like it helped matters in the past.

The Petra Zone

management

re

management

and sue saved the day

oops

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